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Ryan: Aloha guys, and welcome back to the degree free. We are your hosts, Ryan, and Hannah Maruyama. On this podcast, we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating, getting work, building businesses and making money. We'll tell you how to make it happen. No degree needed.
Hannah: Welcome back to the podcast. Everybody, if you haven't already like and subscribe, because you do not want to miss this. If you are listening or watching and you got something useful out of a past episode, and you want to know how to move forward and what to do, you can pick up our guide, which is how to get a job without a college degree.
It is on our website, which is degreefreenetwork.com. And then, like I said, thanks again for listening and be sure to like, and subscribe.
Ryan: Yeah. And let's get into today's episode. So today we are going to be talking about why you should get a sales job. Now, this is super subjective, and this is just our opinion.
We believe that when Hannah and I, when we learn sales, it changed our life.
Hannah: It really did.
Ryan: And since then, there was a clear moment when I learned how to sell to like positive outcomes for the trajectory of our life, as far as career and money and all that stuff go.
Hannah: Well, we were entrepreneurs before we learned how to sell things.
And I will say, if you want to be an entrepreneur, you should know how to sell things before you begin an entrepreneur, because otherwise you'd just look like an idiot.
Ryan: It seems like that is a very crucial skill.
Hannah: Who knew that you needed to sell stuff to make a business work.
Ryan: In order for a business to make money, they first have to sell things.
Hannah: I wish somebody had told us that.
Ryan: And like I said, this is a very subjective episode, but we do believe that getting some sort of sales background, whatever it is really beneficial in pretty much every aspect of life. Every company need sales, and now that's for-profit companies and nonprofit companies.
A lot of people think, oh I don't really like to do sales. A lot of people think is sales is a dirty word. And I did for a long time as well. And so there's ah I don't really the sales aspect of it I'm just going to go work for a nonprofit yeah.
Hannah: People picture. And I've said this before on this show, but people picture it when someone says sales, if you close your eyes, what do you picture? Cause I'm willing to bet if you're in our age range, you're picturing Danny DeVito for Matilda. The dad who's the used car salesman and how he's so shifty and putting sawdust in the carburetor or whatever he does to sell the cars.
But sales is actually a service.
Ryan: I don't remember that the car dust in the carburetor. Yeah. I just remember when he, hooked up the odometer to the drill and he put it on reverse and it made the mechanical odometer go backwards.
Hannah: That's hilarious. But it doesn't feel picture that picture used car salesman specifically from like the 1960s.
Like when even me and, I have this, I share the same opinion that you do have sales, but I think when people close their eyes, they picture some guy with like greasy, slicked, back hair, and a weird mustache that's doing shitty things to sell used cars, but that's not at all accurate sales makes the world go round.
Ryan: Used cars or door to door sales.
Hannah: Like vacuum cleaners, right?
A Bible salesman.
Ryan: Bible sales or like a home cleaning product sale. The guys that go door to do there's like refrigerated trucks that sell meat
Hannah: Oh, it's like a yellow truck and they drive around and they sell frozen food.
Used to be a really big deal.
Ryan: Oh no, I'm talking with it nowadays. There's still, there's companies that go around that sell crap in refrigerated trucks.
Ryan: Yeah, but that's not the only picture of sales. And so it's easy for us to think about, it's easy for us to imagine what sales looks like in a for-profit company, but let's talk about sales in the non-profit companies first.
And just this, just to make it clear for everyone that sales makes the world go round. I mean, it does. Sales in a nonprofit company can look something like asking donors for money, right? I mean,
Hannah: In which case you're selling the work that the nonprofit does.
Ryan: Exactly. So there are a bunch of nonprofits. It's in their name. They don't make profit, but how do they make their money? If you're not, if you're not like a Goodwill or a,
Hannah: Goodwill is not a non-profit.
Ryan: Oh, really?
Hannah: Yeah. Goodwill is a for-profit company. It does extremely well. People hate on Goodwill because it's not a non-profit, but in fact it's much, it performs.
It's one of the most widespread do gooder company. Because it runs for profit.
Hannah: Yeah. They have a nonprofit side, but is a for profit company. They're very profitable.
Ryan: So the arm that gets people jobs, that's for-profit?
Hannah: No, that's nonprofits.
Ryan: The nonprofit side.
Hannah: Correct. But the stores themselves are for-profit, which is why they've done so well.
They've have more reach than any nonprofit that does anything similar.
Ryan: Okay. Yeah. So it's a hybrid, it's a hybrid thing. That's interesting. Cause what I was about to say was that like the, if you're not like that. A good example is actually a salvation army.
Hannah: Yeah. Salvation army is a non-profit.
Ryan: Salvation army, similar business model except a completely different now that they're for-profit and nonprofit.
But if you're not like that, where you have retail arm to it, where you're making money to fund your good works or your good deeds or your non-profit nature. You're going to need people to donate money. Yeah. Then the way that you get people to donate money is what do you have? What do you, have on staff? Salespeople.
And they're not called salespeople though.
Hannah: They're called fundraisers.
Ryan: Fundraiser developers.
Hannah: Code words, people.
Ryan: Whatever it is and however you want to paint this picture. Sales is sales, right? It's their job to sell the mission of what they're doing for money.
Hannah: Yeah, it's funny how I was talking to somebody who was like, oh yeah, like I just want to work for a like a nonprofit I'm like, this person was saying that from, a perspective of they, they were looking at money as a bad thing. They were looking at business as a negative thing, which I thought was so funny.
Cause I'm like, you realize that a nonprofit is a business. It is. That's how it works. And money comes in, and then when he goes out. It's the same, it's the same thing. And it's just the funniest thing that people don't understand that even people that want to work in those industries, it's a business disguised as a nonprofit, but it still has the same goal, which is to make money. They share the exact same goal.
Ryan: And without money they can't operate.
Hannah: Right in the irony, being that the only way that they can, the only way that they can receive that type of status is because there are companies who make enough money that their, that they pay enough in taxes that there's enough room to give those non-profits a tax exempt status.
Ryan: So I wanted to tell a story about that whole nonprofit not knowing sales or not knowing that nonprofits have sales arms. It's interesting because there's this person in our life that works for a university and it was their job to travel around the country and go to different high schools, give a presentation to a bunch of college, or high school rather, seniors and juniors.
And basically tell them about all the amenities and all the fields of study that they could go into and all the different benefits of going to their university. And what was interesting is when I met this person, I asked them what they did and they're like, oh I go around, what was their title? College recruiter. And they told me,
Hannah: Oh, I meet with, we meet, I meet with the parents. I show them how they could get a little bit of aid for their students. And I tell the students all about the college and I get them excited to go there.
Ryan: And so I, this is my first time I'm meeting this person and I'm just like, oh, you're in sales, like right on.
Hannah: And I'll say again, this is a very well-intentioned kind person.
Ryan: And I just say, oh, you're like, you're in sales. That's great. Like, how is that? And I didn't mean it as a norm. There was no, I didn't mean any offense or anything to it. This is the first time that I'm meeting this person and I'm going to say, oh, you're in sales.
That's awesome. How is that? And this person was like, Oh I'm not really in sales. And I was like, I don't know. It seems like, what you're doing is that you're telling them the benefits of something and what it could do for them. And here's what you get. And then you're putting a price tag on it and then you're signing them up.
And I was like, in my mind, I didn't say any of this, but then in my mind, I'm like that's sales. Not only is that sales. It's high dollar sales.
Hannah: It sounded like a timeshare presentation. When this person was explaining it, I was like, oh, you'll, you're like, actually you're selling to the kid and the parents are there, and you're trying to like leverage the kids' emotions to get the parents to like, to go ahead and submit to get in. I was like this is advanced sales.
Ryan: Super advanced sales. It's literally depending on where you live, depending on where you live in the country and depending on how much your house is, it could literally be the largest purchase that you ever make in your life.
Hannah: Yeah. Like Ferrari salesman, yacht, salesman, real estate agents, and you.
Ryan: Yeah, I know. It was like, and that's awesome. I was happy for her.
It's a good job.
And I was like, oh, that's really interesting work. Tell me about it. And she was just a little bit put off about, the fact that I called it sales. When in fact it is sales.
Hannah: Because sales is a dirty word, even if you're doing it.
It was just an interesting, and that's just all on the side to highlight to everybody that like sales makes the world go around and it's not a dirty word. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, people, you have to buy and sell things to live your life in the economy that we have today.
Hannah: I've discovered that people, it's funny because a lot of people will call out people who they perceive to be selling them something when that person is openly selling, but they will not do the same thing to somebody who is covertly selling to them in that same way.
Like as long as it's cloaked in something else, as long as there's enough marketing about the sales to make them think that it's not sales, they're fine with it. But if somebody is just Hey, I want to sell you this thing. It's just strange disconnect for people but I see that, a lot, especially on TikTok
I see it all the time. It's strange.
Ryan: I think one of the things about going into sales that really helps, especially if you don't know much about quote unquote business is sales gets you on the revenue generating side. Sales gets you in the part of the side of the company where you're bringing money in, and that's just good to see, and it's good for somebody that doesn't have any quote, unquote business experience, because then you can see, okay, this is how this company that I'm working for makes money.
And then you break it down, you learn the sales process, you learn what it is that you need to know about that company and about their products and their services. And then you sell that. But it will give you a discerning eye of other companies and of other companies and how they make money.
And it could be depending on how far you go, you could be learning business to consumer sales. So that's like, a grocery store or Nike direct, right?
Hannah: I heard the abbreviation, which is B2C
Ryan: You could be doing that and learn that side of the business. But once you learn that and okay, this is how this company makes revenue.
If you look at a business to business, which is completely different, but if you look at a business to business model and a business, you're probably going to be able to discern a lot quicker, how that company makes money and from a job perspective that can help you analyze how you can fit in to their structure more readily.
Hannah: And how you can help to make more sales because your goal should be to make the company money.
Hannah: Or to save them money. It's one of the two.
Ryan: Right. So if you can sell, you'll never really be out of work. I mean, even if you don't want to sell, even if you don't want to be a salesperson you can leverage those skills in finding another job in communicating with other people. But worst comes to worse. If you have the skill of sales, you will be always be able to fall back on it.
Hannah: Because you can sell anything.
Ryan: You can sell anything. Definitely. And I say that with confidence because after I learn how to sell.
I went on to sell different things. And there's a sales process that maybe in a different episode though, we can go over or at least, yeah. At least what I've learned. And there's, a hundred, a thousand, a million ways to skin a cat and everybody's approach is different, but generally speaking, there's X amount of steps to get from lead to sale.
And the way that I came about sales was very unique. I felt in that I started with was actually marketing. So you guys have probably seen if you guys go to the tourist destinations and stuff, and people heckling you out in the streets to give you a bunch of free things to go to a presentation of some sort, I think timeshare.
That's what I did. That's how I learned it. And I was doing this while I was stopping people cold in the street and basically convincing them to go to a two hour presentation to buy a timeshare like thing for vacation. And it was interesting because that has a very short sales cycle. There how many steps, you want to say seven steps of the sale. And I had to get through all seven points within, I don't know, 20 minutes, within half an hour. I had to boom, Quick. Yeah, I'd have to, I'd have to stop. Whatever. We can go over to it another point.
Hannah: Basically he's cold stopping people on the street.
And within a few minutes, he's trying to pull a $20 bill from them to secure their attendance at a presentation that will sell them something else the next day. That is a very difficult task. For those of you who have never done this, that is hardcore is pulling strangers off the street and getting them to give you 20 bucks.
That's the best way to explain it, because imagine the difficulty of getting someone to trust you within, that amount of time with a physical $20 bill. That's wild.
Ryan: Yeah. It was a great experience. It was a great experience, but after I learned that, even though that sales cycle was so condensed because for a lot of people, I wouldn't even get past the stop.
What I mean by that is I literally wouldn't be able to get them to stop.
Hannah: And he'd just walk right past you like it's a lot of rejection.
Ryan: Yeah, sir, ma'am, whatever. All right, next one next, sir. Ma'am can I talk? Okay, next one, sir. Do you believe in the Easter money? Okay. You gotta stop, but that guy, but that's irrelevant.
Cause he's just wondering, what the heck am I talking about.
Hannah: Gators fan?
Ryan: Yeah. Exactly. What are you doing? What are you doing at Florida? All enough to be in God's waiting room.
Hannah: You can tell the demographic of the people that you're talking to about these.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. There was a, there was guidelines of the people that I need.
Hannah: It's timeshare clients and since the same people, is it a little crossover with the product that he was selling. Which is similar. It's a compliment for those, interesting industry though. I will say people that work in timeshare, man, and I've said it before, but this is hardcore people that work in an industry.
It is sharks. If anybody's looking, if you need good salespeople, just go poach timeshare people that sell timeshare, they're ruthless. They're sharks.
Ryan: Yeah. After learning that even though the cycles are so condensed like I said, 20, 30 minutes, I had got the basics down so that I could sell other things.
So now I transitioned out of that and now I can sell in another life I used to be a handyman and I can sell handyman jobs. And you and I, that's what I'm saying. You and I, we own a business where we do high dollar sales at our studio. And all of that sales process came from us learning sales.
You know what I mean? Like it was just that, those same seven steps. We're much longer, they were much longer.
Hannah: But then the same.
Ryan: The life cycle of these clients, or rather the customer journey of these clients from lead to sale was measured in weeks and months instead of minutes, seconds. But as soon as I learned that it's applicable everywhere.
Hannah: It's universal man. Sales is universal.
Ryan: And that's all to say that I know not everybody wants to be a salesman. Not everybody wants to go into sales, but if you learn it then you will never be without work. Every company needs good salespeople. And if they can't find good salespeople, they'll take crappy salespeople.
Hannah: Also, I think that there's a lot of people who sell things now who do not even realize that their salespeople.
Ryan: Yeah. Can you give an example?
Hannah: Yeah, so I think even, people that work at restaurants because we were in sales for years, every time that, every time the manager of the bar said, we have an overstock of like pepper, butter, mint Schnell.
Do something with that. Okay. I got six bottles of this I have to sell. So you make a cocktail and then every person that comes in, you try to sell them the stupid drink that you just made up. And that is sales because that person did not come in there wanting whatever stupid cocktail you made up.
But they're going to leave having bought one to two and that's sales.
Ryan: Yeah. Or even or even appetizers, upselling appetizers, or upselling dessert.
Hannah: Coffee drinks.
Ryan: Coffee drinks, upselling the oh, can I get can I get a whiskey on the rocks? Oh would you like a maker's mark? Yeah.
Do you want a double or would you rather have a premium shelf liquor instead, of just a regular whiskey instead of just going for the instead of going for the $5 how would you hit them for the $11 premium.
Hannah: So in dismissed by degrees, which is that study that Harvard did about the crossover skills that people have.
It's estimated that people that work in the service industry have most of the skills that college graduates have as far as that goes. And I think that the main reason for that, the main interpersonal soft skills that they have, are sales. They do it all the time and they don't even realize it. There's a lot of people that would be shocked to realize that they're salespeople, but they are, that's exactly what they are.
They're selling the experience. They're selling the restaurant. They're selling themselves to get a good tip, like everything, about that you're marketing yourself and, so if you are in the service industry, you are uniquely positioned to one, have the skill already and twohone it 'cause you can make incremental steps to improve at it to the point where you can apply for a sales job that's maybe a bit of a reach for you, but if you just make an effort to upsell and to practice this in your daily job, you can explain that to somebody who you might want to hire you for a higher paying sales job.
And then I have here too. If you can sell a ranch, you can sell a ball, which is what you were talking about. And if you can sell, if you can upsell a drink, you can upsell, I don't know instead of a two-week window cleaning contract, you can up sell a three week window cleaning contract.
It's all similar. It's just a little bit different. It's just different stakes and your sales, your client, your end customer might be different. But at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is in in that case, you're trying to get someone to buy a little bit more of what they're already interested in buying.
And for a lot of people, you do that already in your job, even if you like work at target or walmart. They do that too, to an extent that's absolutely what people with cashiers oh, you want to buy this? You want to buy that? If they're consistent about following up with that, they can increase sales.
Ryan: I think the last thing is sales, we touched on it, but it helps you in everything.
Ryan: And I didn't understand this until I learned it. It literally helps you in everything. It helps you in your jobs, obviously it helps you, but even if you're not, even if you're not in sales directly, it helps you negotiate a better salary because that's sales.
It helps you deal with clients better, even if you're not actually selling. And one of the things that I find, and we see this all the time, I think you see it in your job is that a lot of people think that the sale ends when money has exchanged hands and you, and I know this to a T because we run a services based business and,
Hannah: You're never done selling.
Ryan: We're never done selling. Ever. Every time that we speak to the client we're selling, right? If it's just you're
Hannah: Back selling the result.
Hannah: You're future selling another product, right? You're future selling yourself as a trustworthy person who they've done business with, who they can continue to trust if they have another problem, they can come to you. And it's just something that has to be done because people are sold things. That's how the world, that's how the world works.
Ryan: Yeah. And the sales cycle doesn't end when you get the money. A lot of also in that it helps everything else. A little side note.
One of the things that sales teaches you to do is teach how to set expectations. You and I talk about this a lot and we have to talk about this a lot because of our business. And we found that a bad outcome is only a bad outcome because there's a disconnect between the expectations that you set with the client and what you delivered.
Hannah: And that's where the ethics of sales comes into, which is if you don't want to get a bad outcome, don't sell to someone who shouldn't buy from you.
Ryan: Yeah exactly, That's yeah. That's a little different than what we're talking about, but yeah, so in order to put that in perspective, If this client wants two widgets delivered in a week, and you're like, you really want the job because you're because you are low on jobs and you haven't been selling a lot of widgets, but you can make the widgets, but you can only make one widget in a week.
What is a widget?
It's like a XYZ thing.
Ryan: Yeah. You can only make one widget within a week okay, don't just take the job and then say deliver, one widget in a week. When you knew that you wouldn't be able to deliver two. At that point, you say look, here, sir. I would love to get this contract from you. We can absolutely deliver two widgets.
I'm going to need two weeks to deliver the widgets. I can deliver one to you in six days. If maybe you can, do it a little bit earlier. Maybe you can't it's okay. So I can deliver one in seven days and then I can deliver the next one, two weeks after that. And that person, it might not work for them.
It might work for them. I'm not sure, but you're definitely going to have a bad outcome. If you say, just say yes to it and then you don't deliver. And that's all setting expectations.
Hannah: It's also just ethics and honesty. And that's, why I think a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth about salespeople is because as with all things as with all jobs, right?
Sometimes you're going to get people to do a good job. And sometimes you're going to get people to do a bad job. Salespeople who did not set expectations correctly are not good salespeople, because what they're doing is they're selling something that they cannot deliver, which means they're not being honest salespeople.
Ryan: Nope, definitely.
Hannah: But good salespeople say this is what I can do for you. This is what I can do it. And this is how I can do it for you and for people who need to buy things or want to buy things that is a fantastic service and it is a service.
Ryan: Yeah. And I think that, that is how did I talk about this all the time?
You and I talk about this all the time, setting expectations and you and I, we set expectations constantly for ourselves in our own personal life, for our clients. For the people that we manage for every everything somehow, I manage. Yeah. That's all we do is that expectations, but that's all part of the sales process.
And so I think that rolls nicely into the last thing I was going to talk about with it helping with everything, which is sales can help you in interpersonal relationships, it's just understanding what you want, what I want and how to get you to see my side and how you can have me see your side, how to set expectations correctly.
Hannah: I have a good example of this actually. And I was thinking about this because because of some videos I had seen, but when we first went out and I see this a lot now because I'm on TikTok so I see the younger dating drama. Then I see what I see a lot, is mismatched expectations.
I see that a lot from what I can see, that seems to me to be one of the biggest problems with people that are dating right now is that there are just completely mismatched expectations. Like this person is saying that they want this thing and this person. Yeah. Okay. But they don't actually say what they want.
So in the end, they're not on the, they're both being bad salespeople. But when we first met when we first went out, we were both very clear about what we wanted out of it at the beginning. And so for us, there was never really mismatched expectations because from the get-go like, this is what I'm looking for, can you deliver this? And then we both agreed. And so I think that's actually something that a lot of people could benefit from now in, like you said, interpersonal relationships, but that's a huge thing.
Ryan: Yeah. And with that comes communication though, and then the continued communication as well.
And this is both in sales and all of a sudden interpersonal relationships as well. Because just because you set expectations one time doesn't mean like you're done.
Hannah: Setting expectations one time does not a good salesman make.
Ryan: Right? So if you're, if you are trying to, if you have a long project and this project is 3, 4, 5 months, years you can't just set expectations with the client one time.
It's the same thing. It's the same thing with a relationship, you have to continually, and that's why Hannah and I preach when we're, when we were talking to each other that the sales process never ends. But that's, our internal dialogue that you and I have communication because communication never ends.
And sales is communication. Yeah. And so if it's years long project, you have to consistently set expectations, especially if the client's can you add this feature? Or can you build this wing instead? Or can we have this look like this?
Hannah: I want it to feel like this.
Ryan: Exactly. And it's okay, that's not what we talked about.
Ryan: I might be able to do that, but here's what you're going to have to give up. And as long as you're clear with your communication, that person is probably going to be fine. The person's probably going to be fine. They're probably not going to be like, wow, that was so crappy. It's the breakdown in communication that really says that this is a bad sales experience. Yeah. The last thing I promise this might be the last thing that I wanted to talk about is money. Cause we never thought we never talked about that yet. And so just quickly with sales, generally speaking sales.
Especially, if you don't have any experience, this is going to be one of the quickest ways to make the most amount of money with the quote unquote least amount of skills and the least amount of hard skills, right? Because sales in and of itself is extremely nuanced.
Hannah: There are no rules about sales though. If you are effective at doing whatever you're selling to whoever you're selling to you don't have to check each box.
If what you're doing works, they will, most companies will not question what you're doing.
Ryan: So with the pay, a lot of times you can get a sales job that pays nothing, but if you can sell, if they put leads in front of you, or if you garner your own leads, depending on what you're selling, whether or not you're selling real estate, insurance, cars, timeshares, jet engines, pest control services, you name it. You can garner a large book of business really quickly. If you work at it and you can start making a good amount of money. If you commit to learning the sales process and you commit to learning your industry and how the customers go through the customer journey in your industry and where you can solve their pain points. If you can master those things quickly, you can make a lot of money really quickly. A lot of times in sales roles, salespeople get paid more than managers do.
Hannah: If you're really good, then yeah. If the sales manager is doing their job, then yeah your salespeople should be out earning you.
Ryan: And a lot of the reason why is because the salespeople there would not be a company without the sales. One of the things we've also talked about before when a positioning yourself, if you're trying to make yourself indispensable and a company, one of the best ways to do that is to work on the sale the side of the business.
Hannah: Make money for the company. And then why would they cut you if you're making money. It becomes much more difficult to cut you if you're earning the money.
Hannah: You're last on the block, instead of first.
Ryan: Opposed to, if you're working in accounting, in-house HR.
Hannah: Legal counsel, assistant, maintenance, admin roles.
Ryan: Those types of things, where you're just a cost center where you're just costing the company money.
Hannah: And it's not saying that people that do those jobs, aren't valuable to a company it's just in a dollars and cents way. The first ones they're going to cut are going to be the people that don't bring in any money
Ryan: In a downturn they're gonna cut that those first, this episode went all over the place. So I apologize about that, guys. We tried to keep it as coherent as possible, but in sales we think it makes the world go round. And even if you don't wanna do sales as a career, even if you don't want to have the title of sales manager or sales director or sales person, definitely think it makes sense. Regardless of whether or not you're working for a for profit company or a non-profit company at some point in your career to learn how to sell.
The best way to learn how to sell this, get a sales job. I mean, you can read all the books that, you could read all the books. But nothing beats it, nothing is going to beat the experience that you get when you're selling.
Hannah: No, because you don't need, there are people that are really successful salespeople that are not, they're not, they've never picked up a sales book in their life.
They just have an instinct for it. They just have practice at it. They have hours, they have reps and reps matter more than books if the reps are getting results.
Hannah: Alrighty. People that is all for today. Thank you so much for watching, please like and subscribe. So you don't miss any of this action.
And then if you found some of this actionable or you want to know how to get a sales job without a degree, then please do check out our website, which is degreefreenetwork.com. We have a guide on there. You folks can grab that. We'll teach you how to go about looking for applying for prepping for getting jobs without college degrees.
Ryan: All right, guys. You already know I'm going to ask. I have two asks. If you guys want us to get in touch, please consider leaving us an [email protected]. Your notes are always nice. If you have any questions, maybe we can answer it on the podcast. If you guys want to help out the podcast, one of the best things that you can do is as Hannah said like and subscribe.
Not a lot of people know that we are also on YouTube. If you guys would rather watch while you guys are doing your computer work or anything like that, you definitely can. Like, and subscribe there for the podcast listeners. If you guys could go ahead and leave us a five star review, we hope we deserve five stars, apple podcasts, or wherever it is, you get your podcasts that really helps to get people to learn more about what we do and about our message here.
But that's it. Until next time guys. Aloha.
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