Join us as we delve into the misconception that college graduates have about job opportunities.
We discuss that colleges have given graduates a false sense of security, and address the criticism of the podcast focusing too much on tech careers.
We highlight that Degree Free individuals have a wide range of options and explore the myth that degrees are necessary for most jobs.
What you’ll learn:
- The realization is that college graduates are competing with Degree Free individuals for the same job opportunities.
- Exploring a variety of career paths beyond trades for Degree Free individuals.
- The importance of acquiring necessary skills or certifications for job success.
- The shift in hiring practices towards prioritizing skills and experience over college degrees.
- The benefits of hiring Degree Free individuals for companies.
- The trend of reducing or eliminating college degree requirements for job positions.
- The need to focus on acquiring skills rather than pursuing traditional degrees in the changing job landscape.
Join us as we navigate the evolving job market and the opportunities available to Degree Free individuals.
We appreciate your feedback, so please leave us a 5-star review and share your thoughts!
Enjoy the episode!
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In this episode, Hannah and Ryan discuss the misconception that companies only hire individuals with degrees, emphasizing that college graduates are actually competing with a wide range of applicants, creating a false sense of security.
Addressing a two-star review, the speaker challenges the notion that the podcast only focuses on tech career paths and highlights the numerous career opportunities available to Degree Free individuals outside of the trades.
They advise finding a job without a degree, emphasizing the importance of identifying needs and wants, acquiring necessary skills, and showcasing how their evergreen podcast episodes can be relevant at any point on the Degree Free journey. They also share positive feedback from listeners who have found their advice helpful.
Connect with Ryan:
Connect With Hannah:
Action Steps & Recommendations:
References, Resources Mentioned & Suggested Reading:
Hannah Maruyama [00:00:00]:
The college graduates, they're under this impression that there's this whole pool, and that companies just go, no. You don't have a degree. You can't jump in this pool. This pool is only for people that have bought college degrees. That's not the reality, and the people who are getting smacked by this are college graduates. We're all in the same pool, and the colleges have told them this completely false sense of security, this completely false sense of, oh, when I get out, I can just wait into this pool, and nobody else is gonna be in this pool competing with me but other college graduates. No. You're competing with literally everybody else.
Ryan Maruyama [00:00:37]:
Alright. Are you ready for a fun one?
Hannah Maruyama [00:00:39]:
All I want is a fun one.
Ryan Maruyama [00:00:41]:
This week is going to be great because I had this topic on my vision board for a long time. That's I actually don't have a vision board.
Hannah Maruyama [00:00:53]:
On your dream board?
Ryan Maruyama [00:00:54]:
It's really a kanban board, but That's so lame.
Hannah Maruyama [00:00:57]:
So it's not a cork board that you cut out pictures of Oprah and a yacht and pinned to.
Ryan Maruyama [00:01:01]:
But, anyway, I had this on my vision board for a while because I was doing the year end review episode a few weeks back, and I didn't know where I was going with that at first. And so we ended up going with the reviewing the past guests. But I had thought about taking it in many multiple directions, and I wasn't sure which direction to take it. And so I had a whole bunch of things compiled for it that I looked through, And this one still stood out to me, and I looked back at it. So we're gonna do it, and we're gonna talk about it. So I wanna preface all of this by saying that I hardly checked the reviews because I don't know. We don't get that many of them, which is wild. I'm a take a little side note.
Ryan Maruyama [00:01:45]:
It's wild because there's so many of you that listen to this podcast.
Hannah Maruyama [00:01:47]:
Tell us what you think.
Ryan Maruyama [00:01:49]:
Yeah. Well, don't tell us what you think. Give me 5 stars.
Hannah Maruyama [00:01:51]:
Yeah. Well, we're about to get into it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:01:55]:
So you can tell Hannah what you think As long as it has 5 stars on the review.
Hannah Maruyama [00:02:04]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:02:05]:
And I'll tell you why 5 stars is because We have to drown out this 2 star review that we got. And I haven't checked it recently. Like I said, I just copied and pasted a bunch of things on here. And so this 2 star review is brought to you by Buddy, the Elf's Sugar Baby.
Hannah Maruyama [00:02:22]:
Hey. You know what? I'll give this dude a couple points for seasonal appropriateness.
Ryan Maruyama [00:02:29]:
You think every, like, every season he changes his name? Probably.
Hannah Maruyama [00:02:33]:
I mean, I would. Right? You're gonna be
Ryan Maruyama [00:02:35]:
Like, in April, it's like the Easter bunny.
Hannah Maruyama [00:02:37]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:02:39]:
like the Easter bunny's best friend.
Hannah Maruyama [00:02:41]:
It's like the Easter bunny's best friend. And then in July, he's uncle Sam. Right? He's all patriotic.
Ryan Maruyama [00:02:48]:
So this is from Buddy, the elf's sugar baby. Two star review. Too much emphasis on tech career paths. So this is on Apple Podcasts for all those listening because Apple Podcasts is one of the only, if not the only platform that you can leave text reviews wherever it is that you're listening to this. Let's just stop, Give us a 5 stars here. And this could all backfire, and you guys could all give me a 1 star, which, hey, I totally get that too. Like, they were pandering.
Hannah Maruyama [00:03:18]:
I think that we're incentivizing the wrong behavior. Because, actually, we're featuring the 2 star review. No. No. No.
Ryan Maruyama [00:03:22]:
No. I thought about this because we have 5 star reviews to back this up, but I wanna talk about this 2 star review. The 5 star reviews are way better.
Hannah Maruyama [00:03:29]:
Is that because they're 5 stars?
Ryan Maruyama [00:03:30]:
No. No. No. No. The reason why is well, they're heartfelt for 1, and then They touch on a bunch of things that I'm glad that other people see, which is why I selected them. Okay. But this 2 star review, I wanted to talk about it, and I wanted to address it Because I thought that this person also brought up some good points. Look, I don't actually care.
Ryan Maruyama [00:03:49]:
You know what I mean? Like, listen to it. Don't listen to it. I'm gonna continue doing this because podcasting and listening to podcast is how I change my life, and I want to change your life listening to this as well. So regardless if you give me 1 star, Regardless, you give me 2 stars. I don't care.
Hannah Maruyama [00:04:04]:
I'm glad you're here. Yeah.
Ryan Maruyama [00:04:04]:
And I'm gonna be back next week. So it is what it is. But let's talk about the 2 star review. Okay. I feel like every other episode is how to break into blank in the tech world or tech certifications. Let's be real. The market is saturated for a lot of these roles. There have been lots of layoffs, etcetera.
Ryan Maruyama [00:04:22]:
A lot of the advice isn't even realistic or helpful anymore in our current job market landscape. It's a lot harder now to land some of these jobs that the guests hosts did years ago. It's really not as easy as just getting a cert and landing a job. There's also the simple fact that not everyone wants to go into tech. Broaden their career path topics a bit more, please.
Hannah Maruyama [00:04:46]:
Okay. Hold on. Before you get into this too, so I get if they're listening to the podcast. But I will just say, everybody, brought in the career path topics a bit more, please. On TikTok, in the last month, I have covered midwifery. I have covered pilots. I have covered linemen. I have covered software developers.
Hannah Maruyama [00:05:06]:
I have covered voice actors. I have covered illustrators. I've covered interior designers. I've covered mermaids, professional mermaids. I do not know how much more variety you want from me, people. I feel like I'm covering all of it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:05:20]:
I see what you're saying, but that's not the podcast. So he didn't review the the TikTok.
Hannah Maruyama [00:05:23]:
That's true. But I'm just saying, we're getting there, folks. It's hard to cover all of these things.
Ryan Maruyama [00:05:28]:
Moving on. I what I wanted to get it to is what is tech? Let's define it.
Hannah Maruyama [00:05:33]:
This commenter, Buddy Elf Sugar Baby saying this, what is tech is a really good question to ask, because when I see this too, let's be real. The market is saturated for a lot of these roles. There's been a lot of layoffs. Yeah. The people that got laid off were all HR and recruiters. That's who got laid off. Like, it's not software developers. It's not people with hard skills.
Hannah Maruyama [00:05:49]:
The people that got laid off for people that were cost centers or people that they didn't need because they were not continuing to hire more. That's who got laid off. Literally, that's who got laid off. And because those people are very loud because they are. That's who got heard on LinkedIn.
Ryan Maruyama [00:06:06]:
So what is tech? Is a Salesforce admin at a government contractor working in tech? Is a Salesforce admin in a real estate company working in tech? Is a HubSpot architect that Works at a construction company. Is that working in tech? What's tech?
Hannah Maruyama [00:06:24]:
If this person was sitting in front of us, what we would ask is, do you mean people who are in tech roles or people that work for tech companies in the tech sector, because those are 2 very separate things. A good example is Matt Young, who's an AWS developer now, and he was a software developer for Kohl's. That's very clearly retail. Right? He has a tech job, but he works for a retail company. So do you mean you don't want us to cover jobs, or you don't want us to cover tech people that work in different sectors of the market.
Ryan Maruyama [00:06:52]:
There's also Matt Walters, which was an episode For him, he was an engineer, but he's an automation engineer. And a lot of his job is working with tech as well, but it's in the physical world, but is that tech? I literally don't know what tech is and what tech isn't.
Hannah Maruyama [00:07:11]:
Well, I'm not sure what they mean by that. Because what we're just covering is we're covering people who are willing to share their experience with different types of work. And we definitely have a lot of tech guests on because they're willing to share their experience, and they think it's interesting and helpful to people, and it is. But I would say that we cover pretty decent range of jobs.
Ryan Maruyama [00:07:28]:
I think the essence of what this person was saying is that Why don't you talk more about the trades? Like, if that was the question, that would be a better question. Why don't you talk more about x industry. Why don't you talk more about, insert, this industry? But, specifically, let's talk about the trades for a second. One of the reasons that we don't talk about the trades too much is because Everyone and their mother knows that degree free people can work in the trades. Yeah. Everybody knows it's, in fact, the 1st set of jobs That people go to when they say, oh, you don't have a degree. So what trade are you in?
Hannah Maruyama [00:08:09]:
Right. They're like electrician, plumber, welder.
Ryan Maruyama [00:08:11]:
When they say, oh, yeah. You don't have to have a degree to be successful today.
Hannah Maruyama [00:08:14]:
Can go into the trades.
Ryan Maruyama [00:08:15]:
And then they'll say, you can be an electrician. You can be a plumber. You can go work in HVAC. Wait a minute. Those are not the only careers that you can have To be successful without a degree. Those are not the only careers that you can have to be successful degree free. It's just not accurate. And there are enough people in the world telling you and telling your kids to go down these trades paths that you can listen to them.
Ryan Maruyama [00:08:42]:
Mike Rowe has been telling people to go into trades for years when he's not in a trade himself. It makes no sense. If you want to learn how to go into trades, there are plenty of people that talk about that. And you go listen to Mike Rowe, go listen to Fox News where he gets on. Go listen to PragerU where he goes on there, and he says, yeah. You can do anything you want, like plumbing, electrician, carpenter.
Hannah Maruyama [00:09:05]:
Three times a week, he's on some different podcasts or news outlets saying, go become an electrician. America doesn't have enough plumbers. Literally, every single week, 3 times a week.
Ryan Maruyama [00:09:13]:
You can bear garbage man? Like, bro, you're none of those things. What are you and
Hannah Maruyama [00:09:16]:
this is not a knock on those things. We are really big on people pursuing whatever is gonna make themselves a living that is going to allow them to live the way that they want. But the thing is, what we want to talk about is the fact that degree free people are not confined to the trades. That is not the only place for us to go if we don't buy college degrees. We can literally do everything, almost everything that college graduates could do aside from things that legally require a degree for licensure.
Ryan Maruyama [00:09:45]:
Yeah. And then if you took those degree requirements down, They could do those as well.
Hannah Maruyama [00:09:49]:
Yes. It's not the lack of ability. It's just the legal requirement that is restricting people from doing things. Correct.
Ryan Maruyama [00:09:55]:
For me, personally, I don't look down at the trades at all and, quote, blue collar work.
Hannah Maruyama [00:10:01]:
Well, you were in a trade.
Ryan Maruyama [00:10:03]:
Because I was a trades person for years. I mean, I was a firefighter that definitely is a trade. And then I was a handyman years before that. I was doing odd jobs forever before that. And so I definitely don't look down at the trades at all.
Hannah Maruyama [00:10:20]:
Yeah. You thought about getting your contractor's license Yeah. For a while.
Ryan Maruyama [00:10:22]:
Built. And so I think it's a great opportunity for anybody and everybody that wants to do it. The reason why we don't talk about it very often is because There are so many people
Hannah Maruyama [00:10:32]:
talking about it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:10:33]:
That are talking about it. It has been ingrained in us to think about degree free jobs Equaling trades. Degree free jobs equaling construction. Degree free jobs equals manual labor. And we are trying to shed a light on literally everything else. Literally everything else.
Hannah Maruyama [00:10:55]:
Everything, which is a tall order and takes a lot of time.
Ryan Maruyama [00:10:58]:
And, well, we've been out of it for 2 years, and we're not stopping now. I wanted to move on to, is the advice outdated? Well, what is the advice that we give, really? Like, really, what is it?
Hannah Maruyama [00:11:10]:
I was actually thinking about that reading this review. What is this person talking out because most of our advice, I would say, is going to be true for a very, very long time, if not forever.
Ryan Maruyama [00:11:19]:
The reason why our advice isn't outdated Is because we made it evergreen.
Hannah Maruyama [00:11:25]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:11:25]:
We've thought about this for a really long time. And by working with people for a very long time, The advice that we give now is true now and will be true for a very long time, barring the entire landscape of work Changing. And I don't mean, like, going from this industry to this industry. I mean, like, work doesn't exist anymore.
Hannah Maruyama [00:11:45]:
Don't have to work now.
Ryan Maruyama [00:11:46]:
Yeah. Exactly. People don't work.
Hannah Maruyama [00:11:48]:
People don't have to apply for jobs. We just get given random jobs from a machine that spits them out.
Ryan Maruyama [00:11:53]:
Work isn't necessary. Yeah. Because there's universal basic income, and we have all of our Needs taken care of and
Hannah Maruyama [00:11:58]:
And we don't need anything ever.
Ryan Maruyama [00:11:59]:
So what is the advice that we actually give? The advice that we give is always Figure out what you need from your work.
Hannah Maruyama [00:12:06]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:12:07]:
Figure out what you want from your work, and then figure out the different jobs that can provide those for you. We call that vocational creativity. So figure out what you need from your work. Do you need to make a certain amount of money?
Hannah Maruyama [00:12:19]:
Do you need a certain schedule?
Ryan Maruyama [00:12:20]:
Do you need to live in a certain place? Yeah. Do you need to work at a certain place? Home, office, wherever it may be. Then you go and find a list of jobs that can fulfill all of the needs for you. You're not gonna really pay attention to the wants because those are really just nice to haves, and those don't really matter. After that, do you figure out what skills you need to show on your resume or portfolio to get the job.
Hannah Maruyama [00:12:41]:
So that when you apply for the job, they actually call you back.
Ryan Maruyama [00:12:44]:
Or you figure out what skills you need to learn to get the job.
Hannah Maruyama [00:12:47]:
Because you don't know those skills now.
Ryan Maruyama [00:12:48]:
And so that's how to find a job backwards. So that's solid.
Hannah Maruyama [00:12:52]:
I mean, I feel like it is.
Ryan Maruyama [00:12:54]:
So you put the skills front and center on your resume. And if you go back and listen to the episode that I did a few weeks ago with Linda Lee, that was a really good episode because it gives you exactly what the recruiter, the 1st people in the process are looking at when they are going through your resume. And I asked her, how long does it take her to go through people's resumes before. It's like, yes, no. Yes, no. And it's like a minute, 30 seconds to a minute. Right. Boom.
Ryan Maruyama [00:13:23]:
Boom. Yes. No. Where does your eyes go right off the bat. Oh, it goes right to the job title and it has to match what I'm hiring for. Or if it doesn't match what I'm hiring for, I'm not looking at it. Oh, wow. That's, like, super insightful for everybody listening to that.
Ryan Maruyama [00:13:39]:
Do with that what you will. You either put those skills And those job titles front and center on your resume, or you go and learn those skills, you acquire whatever necessary certifications or whatever necessary licensure or whatever necessary skills to go and do that job. That advice is still solid.
Hannah Maruyama [00:13:56]:
Again, that'll apply from anyone from a customer service rep 2 or surgeon. You gotta do that if you have to do it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:14:02]:
Then after you do all of those things, then you go and apply for a 1,000 jobs.
Hannah Maruyama [00:14:05]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:14:07]:
I don't know. I think that advice is built pretty solid.
Hannah Maruyama [00:14:10]:
I feel like it is. If you apply for a 1,000 jobs, you are not jobless at the end of that. I'm sorry. I don't care who you are. It's it's crazy.
Ryan Maruyama [00:14:15]:
Given everything that you did before. Yeah. You learn the necessary skills. You figure it out what you needed and what you wanted. You don't have to figure out what you need and what you want in order to just land a job, But it's what's going to keep you in your role. It's what's going to help you stay satisfied with your role. It's gonna help you Stay in it and not feel like you're getting gypped by the system or whatever it is. You're unfulfilled.
Hannah Maruyama [00:14:38]:
Or hating life.
Ryan Maruyama [00:14:39]:
You went and you itemized exactly what you need and what you want from work.
Hannah Maruyama [00:14:42]:
And then you chose based on that.
Ryan Maruyama [00:14:44]:
You laid it out in a very analytical, unemotional fashion. And whatever your needs are, it doesn't matter. If you need to directly impact somebody's life, like, you literally hands on their body to do that, there's no shame in that. That's fine. The amount of jobs that are out there that also make let's say that you need to make $150,000 a year, the amount of jobs that Do that same thing for $150,000 a year got really, really small.
Hannah Maruyama [00:15:13]:
Right. Like, you're now you're a highly specialized massage bodge therapists or you're a helicopter, EMT, or you're a really specialized nurse.
Ryan Maruyama [00:15:20]:
It's possible, and that's what you have to do. Okay. You look at your needs. You look at your wants, vocational creativity, how How to find a job backwards, and then you just go and apply to a 1,000 jobs. Super solid advice.
Hannah Maruyama [00:15:29]:
That's how you do it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:15:30]:
My last thing, and I'll get off this, is the last sentence. Brought in the career path topics a bit more, please. So they give us a 2 star review, and they tell us that our advice is outdated.
Hannah Maruyama [00:15:43]:
And then they give us an assignment.
Ryan Maruyama [00:15:44]:
And then they make a request.
Hannah Maruyama [00:15:46]:
Then we're given homework.
Ryan Maruyama [00:15:47]:
But you just gave me a 2 star review. You're probably not listening anymore. I've never once had an Uber driver and gave him 2 stars and be like, yeah. I want this guy again.
Hannah Maruyama [00:15:56]:
Yeah. Let me order him for my morning to the
Ryan Maruyama [00:15:59]:
I said, what are you what are you doing tomorrow? Same time tomorrow?
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:03]:
Let's drive around.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:04]:
I've literally never done that.
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:07]:
So A restaurant, 2 stars. You sure? I'm gonna eat lunches tomorrow.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:10]:
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:11]:
Never not once.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:12]:
Yeah. So this person is not even listening anymore. No. How do you make the request?
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:16]:
That's so true. I didn't even think about that.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:19]:
And then if you are still listening, then why? Why are you listening? They're just a glutton for punishment.
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:26]:
Yeah. He just likes it. He's just tuning in, like, man, this is so useless. Let me just do 3 more hours of this. Yeah.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:33]:
You know, if you are still listening as well, like, why'd you leave us a 2 star review?
Hannah Maruyama [00:16:38]:
Yeah. If you're gonna give us homework and make a request, a I'm gonna require at least 3 stars.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:43]:
I love that. The the criticisms, totally valid. Everybody has their opinion. It's totally fine. If you listen to Apple Podcasts, please, right now, Pause this. Leave your opinion. And if it's terrible, so be it. It's okay.
Ryan Maruyama [00:16:54]:
I just thought it was funny that there was also a request at the end. Because if I have a terrible Uber ride and I give a 2 star review, like, I definitely don't want that a driver ever again.
Hannah Maruyama [00:17:04]:
I like it if you put an air freshener in your car that I'm never gonna ride it again.
Ryan Maruyama [00:17:07]:
Yeah. So I wanna get to some of the 5 star reviews because I want to highlight what implicitly we've been trying to get across.
Hannah Maruyama [00:17:16]:
For 2 years.
Ryan Maruyama [00:17:17]:
And then I'm glad that people are receiving it this way. It really filled my soul when I read these. And so I'm not gonna say the usernames because some of them are just letters and things. So they really care about helping. I found Hannah and Ryan on TikTok months ago and had one of their viral videos saved and didn't really do anything. I'm 34, college graduate, and recently realized that my career is at a dead end, And I need to change. I started going through the episode archives, and I'm trying to learn and internalize their wisdom. I know they're adjusting their target audience, but I'm grateful for all the useful information they give out.
Ryan Maruyama [00:17:53]:
There are plenty of reasons why I love this comment. The biggest is them going through the backlog of the episodes. We've made like 80%, 90% of the podcast topics that we've talked about Evergreen. And you can go back right now whenever it is that you're listening to this and go and listen to the very 1st episode and onwards. And most of it will still be relevant to where you're at right now. The only problem is that if you go far back and I've talked about this a lot, the episodes are really shaky. They're really
Hannah Maruyama [00:18:32]:
yeah, we clearly don't know what we're doing yet.
Ryan Maruyama [00:18:35]:
The information is good. You just gotta get through us mumbling through it. And some person said that we went on a lot of tangents, which
Hannah Maruyama [00:18:43]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:18:44]:
Valid. So 1.5 x listen. Sure. That's fine. But going back and listening to all those things, we've talked about how to start a business being degree free. Free. We've talked about how to get into sales degree free. We've talked about how to become an author degree free.
Ryan Maruyama [00:19:03]:
All of these different things Along with all the tech jobs that we talk about, you know, if you go back and wherever it is that you are in your degree free journey, we have probably covered it. And if we haven't, Then leave it in the YouTube comments of what you want us to cover.
Hannah Maruyama [00:19:17]:
We'll do a breakdown. I like this one. I'll say teacher. I'm a 30 year veteran high school teacher. I've been a work based learning coordinator for 18 years. This is the information all kids need, all caps, today. I'm planning on using the pathways with my students in the fall. That's awesome.
Ryan Maruyama [00:19:33]:
Yeah. So if this person is still listening to the podcast now, I would love it if you could go to YouTube and comment. Let us know and let everybody else know how it went because this was a little while ago. This was in July of 2023. And so this is January of 2024. So you probably Introduce the 5 degree free pathways. And for those that don't know what the 5 degree free pathways are, those are everything that you can do When you are choosing to live a degree for your life. Whenever you are at a crossroads in your career, and whether that's you, your kids, Whatever.
Ryan Maruyama [00:20:12]:
Let's say that you're 1st getting out of high school, and you're like, I wanna live a degree free life. What can I do? The 5 degree free pathways are everything that you can do to get a job and be successful without a degree. You can also do this if you are a career changer in your fifties, in your forties, doesn't matter. These are all of the options that are laid out for you. I'll put links to the 5 degree free pathways episode that we did in the show notes, degree free dot c o four test podcast. I'll also put links to the vocational creativity episode and the how to find a job backwards episode because we were talking about it earlier as well. And those are really, really good episodes. Like I said, majority of the content that we've made is evergreen.
Ryan Maruyama [00:20:55]:
I really like this because one of the things that's really deep on the degree free roadmap for the business, for the movement is Hannah and I are only 2 people and we can only help whatever we can do. It doesn't scale infinitely.
Hannah Maruyama [00:21:13]:
Yeah. Our time is finite.
Ryan Maruyama [00:21:15]:
One of the things that's deep on the roadmap is teaching other people how to think degree free and how to help other people become degree free. And so If you are interested in learning that to help other people become degree free, you can Go to YouTube, put a comment there, or you can email us at contactdegreefree.co. And in the subject Lyon just put teach me the pathways. I just wanna get a gauge of who's out there, who's listening, and Who would be interested in learning how to do what we do for other people in their community, at their church, At their schools, so on and so forth.
Hannah Maruyama [00:21:59]:
Yeah. This is gonna be later, but we are working on it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:22:02]:
Yeah. Like, later this year is the earliest. Q 4 2024 at the earliest, probably 2025. But I did wanna put out a feeler and just get a gauge of Where you guys are at and whether or not you find that this is valuable and you would want to teach this to people in your life, people that you care for. The last 1 that I wanna talk about is from Channy v. Should be required listening for anyone graduating high school. I have sent this podcast to my 16 year old sister and 60 year old mother, Both of which found tremendously helpful. I always learn something new.
Ryan Maruyama [00:22:37]:
And as a multipassionate individual, I appreciate getting professional advice that acknowledges the worthlessness of degrees. I've been bingeing and am so inspired.
Hannah Maruyama [00:22:47]:
My favorite part of this is the fact that she sent it good people in completely separate generations, and they both listened to it and found it interesting.
Ryan Maruyama [00:22:54]:
That was huge for me When somebody is saying that literally multiple generations have found value from this content, Like I was saying, like, the 5 degree free pathways, it is as useful for a high schooler as it is for a 50 year old, 60 year old who is not sure of how to get out of their situation
Hannah Maruyama [00:23:21]:
or into the situation they wanna be in. Exactly.
Ryan Maruyama [00:23:23]:
That was amazing and awesome. And so that was just a quick segment that I wanted to do. I just wanted to respond to that. I thought it was funny for many reasons, and I'm glad that we were able to respond to it. But everybody that's listening to this, guys, leave a review. We gotta drown out this 2 star review.
Hannah Maruyama [00:23:42]:
There's thousands of you.
Ryan Maruyama [00:23:44]:
Yes. Thousands of people listen to this podcast every week, And we have 34 reviews. Well, as of when I took these reviews months ago, we had 34 reviews. I don't check the reviews, so I I actually don't know. But go leave review. Pause this right now. We're gonna get into more things right now, and I'll get off my high horse. And I think, Hannah, I actually something that Is useful.
Hannah Maruyama [00:24:04]:
I just have a regular horse.
Ryan Maruyama [00:24:06]:
Hannah Maruyama [00:24:08]:
So with that, according to a December article, there's a report by ZipRecruiter, and this article was featured by CBS. Degree free is here. And what do I mean by that? More US companies no longer requiring job seekers to have a college degree. Are you shocked? Super. Me too. I just didn't see this coming from 10,000 miles away. So key facts. In 2023, I love ZipRecruiter data.
Hannah Maruyama [00:24:35]:
ZipRecruiter has really, really good data on different job listings because of the way that they interact with both the job seekers and the way they interact with the companies that post the jobs. So their data is very good. And in 2023, the share of jobs on their hiring platform on ZipRecruiter's hiring platform that listed a bachelor's degree requirement do you wanna guess what it was at in 2022. On ZipRecruiter, how many jobs do you think required a degree? What percentage of jobs required a degree in 2022? Because if you listen to the comments on TikTok. They'll tell you that it's 70 to 80% of jobs require a bachelor's degree. 40%. 40%. Okay.
Hannah Maruyama [00:25:12]:
Okay. How about 18? 18%, a whopping 18%. And that whopping 18% fell to 14% in 2023. So I'm very excited to see this year how much further that falls through the floor. The funniest part of this whole thing is the 18%, because that is a tiny fraction. It's 1 5th. And you can probably assume as well based on our estimates that we've done before that the amount that actually require it, like, legally require it is closer to 5 to 10%. So there's people listing requirements as a bachelor's degree that don't actually require a bachelor's degree to do that job.
Hannah Maruyama [00:25:48]:
Now this is something I wanna say. So the amount of jobs on ZipRecruiter that required a college degree drop from 18% in 2022 to 14.5% in 2023. And this year, they will drop even more. College graduates are under the impression that there is a special walled off garden of jobs that are specifically reserved for them. That is not true. We are all in the same pool. They are in the same pool as degree free people. By the way, degree free people are 60% of the employed US workforce.
Hannah Maruyama [00:26:16]:
You're all swimming in the same pool. There are very few people that do have access to a special walled off garden of jobs. Those are people whose jobs legally require them to have a college degree in order to do their job. And that is a very small pool of people, a very tiny percentage of the job market. We're talking surgeons. We're talking CPAs. That's what you're looking at. People who literally cannot have their jobs unless they buy a bachelor's degree and sometimes advanced degrees.
Hannah Maruyama [00:26:40]:
Very small percentage of the market.
Ryan Maruyama [00:26:42]:
Yes. And that is the entire attitude that we are trying to break down on the podcast and with the movement. And this goes back to what we were saying. We don't talk about trades because everybody knows already. And we are trying to get rid of and abolish that stigma or that attitude that there is some type of walled garden out there of jobs that are just reserved for people that have degrees. Oh, I have a degree. And so therefore I'm only qualified for this. You don't have a degree, so you're not qualified.
Ryan Maruyama [00:27:14]:
And we're trying to tell you, and we are telling you that that doesn't exist. That you don't need a degree to be successful in life.
Hannah Maruyama [00:27:21]:
And it's really the people who I feel like are being harmed by this are college graduates. Because the college graduates. Like I said, they're under this impression that there's this whole pool and that companies just go, no. You don't have a degree. You can't jump in this pool. This pool is only for people that have bought college degrees. That's not the reality. And the people who are getting smacked by this are college graduates.
Hannah Maruyama [00:27:41]:
We're all in the same pool, and the colleges have sold them this completely false sense of security, this completely false sense of, completely false sense of security, this completely false sense of, oh, when I get out, I can just wade into this pool, and nobody else is gonna be in this pool competing with me but other college graduates. No. You're competing with literally everybody else, and that's what they're just not understanding because colleges have said, oh, this is your golden ticket. Also this is experience, and none of that is true. None of that is true. And then they get out into the actual market, and they're shocked. They're shocked by that.
Ryan Maruyama [00:28:09]:
Hey there. I hope that you're loving this of the degree free podcast. We spend a ton of time every week creating this content for you. So my only ask is you take a quick second to leave a review or a thumbs up on whatever platform you're on. It's one of the best and easiest ways that you can support this podcast, and this simple action can help bring more people into the degree free community. At degree free. We wanna help as many people as we can thrive and succeed without needing a college degree. Your review will be a step in that direction.
Ryan Maruyama [00:28:36]:
If you could do this small favor right now, pause this and leave a review. It would truly mean the world to us. Thank you, and back to the show. It makes sense. In order for them to come to the realization that degree free people have the same shot at jobs that they do, They have to recognize and come to terms with the fact that what they did was useless. They have to come to terms with the biggest purchase that they're probably ever going to make their life for a lot of people. It's even more expensive than their house that they live in. That was useless.
Ryan Maruyama [00:29:09]:
You wasted 4 years, five and a half years of your life and $120 to get the same job that this dude got 5 years ago.
Hannah Maruyama [00:29:16]:
Or even 3 years ago because that person spent 2 years building skills that you are now going to have to starting at ground 0. You're gonna have to get those skills in order to get the same job business dude who's had this job for 3 years. That's what a lot of people just say is I'm not talking about degree free people, just getting jobs with no experience or no skills. What I'm saying is college graduates are getting out. They think that their college degrees experience, and they're competing with people that actually have experience and actually have skills. And they think that they are being protected, that they have access to this protected class of jobs, and and that companies are not gonna hire somebody who is skilled or experienced because they want somebody who bought a paper. They do not care, and the numbers reflect that. So, additionally, 45% of employers surveyed by ZipRecruiter said that they had done away with degree requirements for certain roles over the past year.
Hannah Maruyama [00:30:04]:
72% of firms said they prioritize candidate skills and experience over the diplomas they hold according to ZipRecruiter. So something I think will also happen, and everyone should go back and listen to that episode with Linda Lee, who is a degree free recruiter. And as degree for your recruiters become more prevalent because that's also an uptick, this is gonna drop even more because there's just inherent biases for recruiters and hiring folks because they have degrees. And so they hold this inherent bias that other people should buy degrees in order to get jobs because they had to do so. But as that cohort of people shifts and turns over, which is doing so right now. And I think that that's actually contributing to this a lot too. But as that happens more and more, this is gonna escalate. This is gonna increase.
Hannah Maruyama [00:30:47]:
They're gonna drop more and more requirements all the time, and hiring is gonna get even more open. And that's great.
Ryan Maruyama [00:30:53]:
I asked Linda on our episode how much of a factor biases in the recruiting and hiring process at large. And, honestly, I feel like I should have pressed her a little bit more because she gave me a good answer for our audience, but it still Showed bias. Everybody should go back and listen to the episode. It was a very, very good episode. Her answer was, for me, when I see people that have gaps in their resume that haven't gone to college. I don't mind it. And I send those people through like, those are my people. I believe that's what she said.
Ryan Maruyama [00:31:31]:
And she sent them through. That's amazing. And that's great, but what is that?
Hannah Maruyama [00:31:36]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:31:37]:
That's bias. I'm not Saying that it's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just bias up and down the recruiting process, the hiring process In general, Ian Siegel, the CEO of ZipRecruiter, he wrote a book. It's called Get Hired Now. I don't know if it did very well or not. It's a very good book. If you're a job seeker and you're a career changer and you don't know how to look for jobs, I would definitely suggest it.
Ryan Maruyama [00:32:07]:
What's so interesting about that book to me is that he could have started anywhere in the job search process, but chapter 1, The 1st chapter of the book was about bias. That was the 1st chapter of the book, and I was like, what? This dude started a job seeking book at bias. And the more that I thought about it, The more that it made sense to me. Because what is our whole thing right here at degree free?
Hannah Maruyama [00:32:41]:
We're talking about bias.
Ryan Maruyama [00:32:42]:
We are talking about bias. We ourselves Are biased, and so is Linda.
Hannah Maruyama [00:32:48]:
Ryan Maruyama [00:32:48]:
And so is any other person on this planet.
Hannah Maruyama [00:32:51]:
Everybody. It's all balancing bias.
Ryan Maruyama [00:32:53]:
Exactly. It's all recognition of your bias and then saying, okay, now, how do I fight that. Does it need to be fought? How do I correct that? It reminds me of Daniel Kahneman. He wrote a book called Thinking Fast and Slow, and he talks about, like, system 1 thinking, system 2 thinking. I might get them mixed up, but I think system 1 thinking is, like, instinctual thinking. And so it's, like, very, very quick. It's boom, heuristics. Boom, bias.
Ryan Maruyama [00:33:23]:
I don't know if this is accurate or not, but, like, system one thinking is, like, crunchy food.
Hannah Maruyama [00:33:28]:
Can you define heuristics for me?
Ryan Maruyama [00:33:29]:
Heuristics like a rule of thumb. Thank you. So it's a set of things that you have in mind that equal this thing. So, like, for example, crunchy food. I don't like crunchy food. I hear the crunch of popcorn. I'm not gonna like popcorn. That's system one thinking because it's really quick.
Ryan Maruyama [00:33:45]:
Boom. And then you think You slow down, and then you think in system 2 thinking, and you say, wait a minute. That doesn't make any sense. I've never had popcorn before.
Hannah Maruyama [00:33:53]:
So how would I know?
Ryan Maruyama [00:33:53]:
How would I know? I'm gonna slow down. Let's try it. And then that system 2 thinking. You slow down and you're like, oh, okay. I recognize that I made a quick decision there or I made a quick judgment Or made a quick call, and I am now going to sit down and actually think about what's going on. Those 2 things combined, thinking fast and slow, system 1, system 2 thinking by Daniel Kahneman, and get hired now the very first chapter. You don't have to read the whole book. Just the 1st chapter on bias.
Ryan Maruyama [00:34:21]:
Like, why would he start there? Why would he start there? And it's because it is biased all the way up and down, and that is where AI is really going to come into play here. We've talked about it before on the podcast when we're talking about bias. I don't know if it's a tall tale or not, but there was, like, in Juilliard or something like that, They were accepting so many men into the school that they put a curtain, and they made them play behind, like, a shoji screen, been, like, a paper screen or whatever. And the amount of women accepted into the school went up. Like, this could be a tall tale. I'm not sure. The amount of women allowed into the school went up because they weren't biased by it, but they also found if we make them take their shoes off while they walk to stage, it becomes even less biased because they can hear heels when women wear heels. And so once again, it's just bias all the way up and down this whole system.
Ryan Maruyama [00:35:22]:
And so, yes, Linda is a very, very good episode, and I'm glad That somebody is out there fighting the degree free fight. But if you notice and I should have dug deeper.
Hannah Maruyama [00:35:31]:
But it's biased balance. That's what it is.
Ryan Maruyama [00:35:33]:
It's just bias.
Hannah Maruyama [00:35:34]:
That's super interesting. If my theory is correct, that does explain a lot of this because of the generation of HR that's taking over. They are swinging in the opposite direction, basically. So this is reflected in according to Julia Pollock, the chief economist for ZipRecruiter, who we've had on our podcast. Good episode. Everybody should go back and listen to that one. But employers are resorting to skills based hiring and saying, we don't care if you finish college. There's a clear trend where smaller businesses are more likely to say they're doing this versus major enterprises.
Hannah Maruyama [00:36:03]:
In a future episode, I'll cover the report on the small businesses, but the small businesses are actually actively avoiding hiring college graduates. They are, in fact, avoiding you guys. That is what's going on. I'll talk about why that is in that episode where we cover that report, but it's very interesting.
Ryan Maruyama [00:36:17]:
Smaller businesses are saying this, I believe, because they want to increase their talent pool right now. They want more people to start applying to their jobs right now. It's one of the things that people are starting to realize that is a major unlock. Oh, if you just get rid of the degree requirement, I get a lot more people applying to my roles. I remember I was having a conversation. It was a few months ago, for sure, sometime in 2023. I was having a conversation with a recruiter in the auto industry. And one of the things I said, what's, what's the biggest problem for you right now? And she's like, I just can't get applicants.
Ryan Maruyama [00:37:01]:
And I was just like, what What are you talking about? This is just like, I have a lot of open roles, and I just can't get people to apply. And it's made me think, and I was like, wow. I mean, this wasn't a small company too. This was a
Hannah Maruyama [00:37:16]:
Large regional company.
Ryan Maruyama [00:37:17]:
Large regional company. I think it's, like, $3,000,000,000, market cap of the company. And so I was like, that's kinda crazy. If that's a problem, what a lot of these smaller companies are realizing and are willing to say right now, because they don't have as much red tape is they're willing to say, yeah, you don't need a college degree. Opened it up, and they will see, wow. One line on my job description was keeping away so much talent.
Hannah Maruyama [00:37:47]:
For no reason.
Ryan Maruyama [00:37:48]:
For no reason. And granted. Okay. Some people might say, well, I don't want people that only one line kept them away. Like, you want a degree free person that's like, yeah, I don't care that that says college degree required. I'm gonna apply anyway, and that's the person that you want. But the reality of situation is that they're not getting enough applications.
Hannah Maruyama [00:38:08]:
How do you fix that? Be more accurate. It's so wild to watch this happen when we've been saying that this has been going on. And also one of the most frequent comments constantly on TikTok, one of the most frequent comments I get is, yeah. The reason the companies are trying hired degree free people is because they can pay them less. No. The reason they're trying to hire degree free people is because they churn 39% less. I do not think that some of you understand how much cost that saves a company. I don't think you understand.
Hannah Maruyama [00:38:38]:
Degree for people do not leave at the rate that college graduates do. And people can fuss about that all day, but the cost and the amount of time it takes to replace somebody when they leave to train somebody to get them up to par in a role. They estimate it takes 6 months to get up to training. And then every time you have an open role, it costs an average of $5,000 to fill that role. It's incredibly expensive. It costs your team, a lot of productivity. It slows everything down, and that's just 1 person. But if imagine you just expand that to a large scale and you have people constantly churning.
Hannah Maruyama [00:39:12]:
When that happens, it's slowing the company down so much, and it's costing them so much money. And then they have to hire, and they have to have more recruiters, and they have to have more staff. And it's this constant onboarding and offboarding of people. It's very expensive. It's very time consuming. There's all this lost knowledge. There's all this lost process. And so that's why companies are doing this.
Hannah Maruyama [00:39:32]:
It's because they've realized, wait a minute. We can get the same level of skill, and this is Jenny Romerty, the pharmacy of IBM says that degree for people perform the same as PhDs when they're trained. It's the same. She is one of the leaders on this too, and she's like, there's no difference. And that's what people are struggling with. They think that because they bought a bachelor's degree in marketing that, oh, well, companies don't wanna hire me because I just wanna wage premium. And I'm like, no. They don't wanna hire you because you're gonna leave, and your college told you you were gonna make $90 when the market value for your salary is 60.
Hannah Maruyama [00:40:03]:
It was 60 before you bought your degree. It's 60 after you bought your degree, but you think it's 90 because your college, which has nothing to do do with the business that's gonna hire you, is gonna pay you $90,000.
Ryan Maruyama [00:40:14]:
This goes back to what Drake Porter said In our very 1st episode together, episode 63. And he was talking about it from the perspective of himself, which is Whenever he saw job descriptions, if he fit 20 to 50% of it, he would apply because The domain specific knowledge for that role, he is confident that he can learn on the job. And so That was from his personal anecdote and the reason why he applied to the job that he's applied to and the reason why he is in the position that he's in right now. That Attitude is indicative of what you're saying right now, which is the domain specific skills of whatever Your industry is or whatever your job is can be taught.
Hannah Maruyama [00:41:03]:
They're gonna have to teach it to you.
Ryan Maruyama [00:41:04]:
It can be taught. And they will teach you because they have to.
Hannah Maruyama [00:41:07]:
Because they have to.
Ryan Maruyama [00:41:08]:
The things that matter most are the soft skills. It's all of the things around the domain specific skills. Those are the things that really matter. And if you haven't already, we've talked about it a lot, but I'll put it in the show notes, Drake Porter's 2 episodes, episode 63. And then I forgot what the other episode number was, but those are really, really good to go back and listen to.
Hannah Maruyama [00:41:28]:
This is gonna be my last point, but I wanted to break down the industries that are cutting these requirements really aggressively. And what's funny, we actually predicted this, but this is spot on exactly accurate. And then we made this episode, and then I saw the ZipRecruiter report, and I kinda laughed. Sounds like, oh, look. This is the exact same ones that we predicted. In 2022, 12% of health care postings required college degrees. Also again, this is people that like, you can't work in healthcare without a college degree. 12% of the listings on ZipRecruiter in healthcare required college degrees.
Hannah Maruyama [00:41:57]:
12%, folks. And again, that's probably more than actually legally require them. And, how do I know that? Because compared two 2023 when 9.3% of them. That's a 3% cut, folks, by the way. 3%. They just shaved off the top. So that tells you right there that I'm correct.
Ryan Maruyama [00:42:17]:
Hannah Maruyama [00:42:18]:
Yeah. 25% relatively. Math in public. Employers are saying, we'll take you and help you get the requirements. We'll invest in training you, Pollock said. The sectors that are being affected by this cutting of degree requirements, medicine. This is happening due to extreme need. Teaching and education, due to the fact that substitute teachers are literally running the entire education system right now.
Hannah Maruyama [00:42:39]:
This is something too I feel very strongly about because you cannot burden teachers with the amount of student debt that is currently being required for them to become teachers if you're going to pay them as you do now. It would be okay for teachers to be paid as they are being paid now if they did not have to take on the massive student debt in order to get those jobs. It's absolutely ridiculous. Seventeen states now have paid teacher apprenticeships where teachers are placed with older, more experienced teachers. They have mentorship. They get paid. That is how that should work. That is exactly how that should work, and then they get licensed.
Hannah Maruyama [00:43:11]:
That makes a lot of sense. It reduces the downside risk. I would guess too it's probably gonna reduce teacher churn because they actually have support with a mentor. Because most teachers leave within 5 years because they're not supported, and they don't have help. They can be a very emotionally draining job.
Ryan Maruyama [00:43:24]:
I think a lot of teachers churn within 5 years due to the entire package that is required of them currently. And so exactly what you were saying, being draining, being paid what they're being paid and then having to service the debt that they have to incur to get that job. And so all of that is a recipe for somebody that's really unhappy in their job. So not only am I going to be in a very draining job, but then I'm also gonna get paid what the market dictates, which is not enough to service the debt payment that I had to go into to get this job. So all of that is a recipe for just for disaster. And that's why they're churning at 5 years.
Hannah Maruyama [00:44:14]:
Yeah. Because they have to. That's the biggest thing is if you're gonna pay that market rate and you're going to have such an emotionally draining and demanding work environment. You cannot require people to pay that much in order to get that job. It's asinine. It's asinine and they shouldn't be doing it. And it's now going away. So 17 states, as I said, paid teacher apprenticeships.
Hannah Maruyama [00:44:35]:
I anticipate seeing that number go up due to need, and it should because that's how people should learn how to teach. The last 1 is finance. Not surprising, actually. And this has been attributed to brain drain due to tech. A lot of the people that went into quantitative and qualitative roles in finance were pulled into tech because of the money. And so now finances saying this is a quote from Julia Pollock. Due to the fact that you can take a licensing exam, employers are saying if you can ace the licensing exam, we will take you. So that tells you that all of a sudden, the only requirement is actually passing the test, which it should have been all along.
Ryan Maruyama [00:45:11]:
Which it was all along.
Hannah Maruyama [00:45:12]:
That is true. You could have done that the whole time.
Ryan Maruyama [00:45:15]:
Finance For a lot of the industry, depending on what portion of the finance industry that you're in, a lot of it is licensed to practice. You need series whatever. You need this license whatever to literally do your job. If you don't have this, I can't speak to you. Literally, I cannot hire you because you do not have this license. I don't give a Where you went to school. I don't care if you went to Stanford. I don't care if you went to Harvard.
Ryan Maruyama [00:45:47]:
I don't care if you went to Cornell. I don't care Because I can't speak to you because you are not licensed. You don't have this thing. Get this thing, and then we can talk about it. And then, oh, okay. You went to these places? Sure. Maybe that may maybe that has some sort of draw on it. Whatever.
Ryan Maruyama [00:46:03]:
But I can't get there unless you have this license. And so that's how it's always been, but they're literally just removing it on their
Hannah Maruyama [00:46:12]:
On their listings.
Ryan Maruyama [00:46:12]:
Listings now. Yeah. Because it it doesn't matter. Like, those aren't required, because they were never required. Because the only thing that was required
Hannah Maruyama [00:46:18]:
Was the license. Was the license. And it's like, hey. Get the license. Learn how to do the spreadsheets. Learned how to do sales and to get along with people and learn some hustle, and you can get into one of these finance jobs. So just so you know, if you're looking to get into finance, now's your moment. Then my last final point was just Indeed itself, and this was an article.
Hannah Maruyama [00:46:34]:
But Indeed itself has actually removed degree requirements for hundreds of job postings at their company, including software and product manager roles. So watching the companies that are watching ding down credentialing. Down credential is pretty awesome.
Ryan Maruyama [00:46:48]:
It's funny because if you're listening to this, you're still early, and if you've been listening to us for 2 years. If you've been with us from the beginning, you've been really early. Soon, the tide has already turned and the waves are getting bigger. Soon, Our contrarian, and I'm using that in air quotes. Our contrarian view where people are constantly to this day on this video And on the clips that we make from this video, people are gonna call us idiots and call us dumb, which we are. But they are gonna say all of this. Like, you're wrong. You need a college degree to do this.
Ryan Maruyama [00:47:23]:
2 to 5 years from now, 10 years from now This is gonna be mainstream. Going to be mainstream. You are still super early Still super early in this. And because you're listening to this, you realize, okay. Well, you don't have to go back to college to get that degree. I don't have to force my child to go and take the same path that I did. I don't have to
Hannah Maruyama [00:47:44]:
Get the same result or a better result.
Ryan Maruyama [00:47:46]:
Oh, I went into 6 figures worth of debt and got a job where I was sitting next to whatever, John, Jill, that didn't do the same thing and who is better off net worth wise. We make the same amount of money. I'm in debt. They're doing fine. What the heck you can help your kid not go down that same road right now because you're listening to this. And that's awesome.
Hannah Maruyama [00:48:12]:
We've been saying this for 2 years, but the future is degree free, and the future is right now. It's here, folks. You can see the writing is on the wall. And now you know what you need to do, which is help your kids figure out what they're gonna do, and then help them figure out how to get the skills that they need. This is all skills. This is all resume. This Zol application. This is all networking and who you know and getting in the room.
Hannah Maruyama [00:48:32]:
And that's something we're gonna keep talking about and keep equipping you to do and to help your kids do.
Ryan Maruyama [00:48:37]:
And it's one of those things. It's right or wrong. Before we wrap up, I want to Call back the bias that we were talking about. It's one of the realities of the world that we live in today. We are going to have to deal with biases that people in decision making positions have. That's just the way of the world. And we, it is our job, as I say all the time, to Connect the dots. Get over their biases.
Ryan Maruyama [00:49:11]:
Understand what their biases might be and get them if Point b, where we wanna end up is the job and the job listing and getting hired. And point a is where we are in our experience in what we've done. We have to draw a straight line as possible to get the hiring manager to get the recruiter to understand Why you. You and why you're a good fit for that role. And to understand from their perspective to have some empathy and put yourself in their shoes, Maybe you start to understand the biases they might have and how you can address those things. I think that was a great episode. Let us know what you think in the YouTube comments. Leave us a 5
Hannah Maruyama [00:49:51]:
star review. Not a
Ryan Maruyama [00:49:53]:
2 star review. Not a 2 star review. Let us know your thoughts. Yeah. I think that's pretty
Hannah Maruyama [00:49:57]:
good. Yeah. Thanks all. Thanks,
Ryan Maruyama [00:49:58]:
folks. Alright. Until next week, guys.
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