July 20, 2022

Making Some Noise: Audio Engineering, Podcast Production, and College with Jay Yow - Ep. 54

Making Some Noise

Audio Engineering, Podcast Production, and College with Jay Yow

Audio engineer Jay Yow is behind The James Altucher's Show for 8 years. He watched it grow from a living room experiment, to a podcast featuring the likes of Mark Cuban, Peter Thiel, Tony Robbins, Tim Ferriss, William Shatner, boasting millions of downloads.

Jay is a very passionate person when it comes to music and all kinds of media, especially sound.

We talked about a variety of topics: His audio engineering journey and how you can become one without a degree, all about podcast production, cryptocurrency investments, and also gaming!

Enjoy the episode!

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Links and Notes from the Episode

Episode Transcript
Please enjoy this transcript or our episode!

Please note the transcript may have a few errors. We're human. It can be hard to catch all the errors from a full length conversation. Enjoy!

Ryan: Aloha folks. And welcome back to Degree Free. I'm your host Ryan Maruyama and on this podcast, we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating getting work, building businesses and making money. Today, we have a special guest today. We have Jay Yow on the podcast and Jay Yow is the producer and audio engineer for the James Altucher show.

This was an awesome episode for me because I've been listening to the James Altucher show for years, and I've been hearing Jay come on and give his 2 cents in the background for years. And so it was awesome for me to finally meet him and get to talk to him. Today we talk about podcasting. We talk about his background and coming from a different country and, how he got the current role that he's in and how he basically made his own role.

And we talk about how you can do it as well. We also talk about gaming. We get a little bit in the weeds there. But we talk about crypto there's and a much, much more. So please enjoy this episode with Jay Yow. So how did you learn all of your audio engineering? I know you went to school for it, right?

Jay: Oh, yes. 

Yeah. So I went to school for it. It's funny because I wanted to be a rock star back then. and then I just realized I'm not good looking and I can't sing, because I have a weird way of speaking and articulate things, and then my school teacher is like, Hey, you can always do Audio Engineering.

I'm like, oh, what's audio engineering. And then he explains to me like, Hey, you know. Audio Engineering is, you sit behind a desk and record audio and stuff like that. You get to, involve creatively because you're audio engineer. They have to listen to you to get the best sounding audio.

So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do that. And then from that point on I'm like, I'm just gonna focus on English, Physics and math . So like in, so I'm from Malaysia. In Malaysia, we have the similar of like SAT here. So it's is a type of exam to see where, which college you can go wherever. And then those three subjects are the only one that get As in my result.

So. Yeah. And then, and I went to the audio engineering school in Malaysia, and then I start intending right away. I go to school and I start intending right away as well, so that I can learn faster compared to all my classmates. So I have like hands on experience and all that stuff, and that's how it begins.

.So I started as an intern and go to school at the same time, whatever I learned that day, I go to the studio and I start applying it, you maybe not for artists or whatever it just so I can have a place that I can practice, I just run a sound or have my phone playing music, have microphone connect and start patching different stuff.

That's how I get started but I think when I was younger and I sort of like music and audio in a way that back then remember we have a thing called cassette. I'm sure like a lot of people right now, have no idea what cassette is.

Ryan: Yeah. What is that? 

Jay: Yeah. What is that? And then during the same time, there's also CDs, compact disc and I know what's compact this anymore.

 So my dad has a car that, I usually write, we usually have a long ride because, traffic jams everywhere in Malaysia. So I'm like I have these CDs and then your car only play cassettes. I need to find a way to record it. So like I found like a way, or a CD player that can record CD into a cassette.

And I start doing that. And then when I was in school, even in high school, I'm like, well, I would just get this software and just mess around. And I started playing with back then what was called a cool edit. It was precursor it was what Adobe auditions was, before got bought by Adobe auditions.

That's back in, I think it's 2000, I think back in 2000. That's when that happened. Yeah. That's how I get into it. I'm like, I just want to mess around with sound. 

Ryan: How old were you when you wanted to be a rockstar? Was this like last year or? 

Jay: I was 13 years old. I'm like, oh, look at, look at all these rock stars.

Look at all these people. They're so cool. They can sing. And they get all the girls and stuff like that. I wanna do that. so I started like learning guitars and piano by myself when I was 13, 14 and 15 years old came around. I'm like, I didn't look as good as any of them. Like they have like perfect face, sharp, perfect teeth.

I have like weird teeth. They have nice hair. I have long hair. And then. The way I speak and the way I sing is way different than them. I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna be a sound engineer, at least during the mixing stage, I can control the creative, I can make it a little bit different than what they wanted, and make it sounds better.

Ryan: Do you still play guitar and piano? 

Jay: Not as much anymore. Yeah. I used to do it when I was in the band. And then, also when I was engineering music, I need to, because I need to learn, I need to know what's going on in the instrument. So as Audio Engineer, you are have to know for music, especially, you have to know how each instrument works or at least have an idea of how each instrument works so that when you record how to mic them, how they should sound or like a violin you know how far you should mic them as stuff like that.

Ryan: Right. Absolutely. And then how do you, like, how do you learn that stuff? Was it mostly just trial and error or did you learn that through school? 

Jay: Well, I learned that through school. That's for sure, because you need to have some sort of baseline before you can start effectively trial and error.

So if you go to school, the school will teach you the same thing. Almost every school will teach you the same thing. Like this is how you mic this, this is how you mic that this is how you mic that, like this is how you mic the guitar. This is how you make a drum. This is how you mic a piano, saxophone balance, how however you want it.

And then you start going into the studio, then you're like, okay, I'm gonna stop from what I learned. And then I start experimenting outside of it. I will have one safety, I will have one microphone, just sit there and be like, okay, this is how it is correct. And then I will just move around the other mics and see how it sounds and then see which one I like better.

And it's also all based on experience too. Like yeah, you need to have a good year for sure, and then after that, it's based on experience, like how much you have done it and you go into a room. You're like, okay. I walk around, I think I should mic it here because it's gonna sound better here. And this and that.

Ryan: So you said that you were originally from Malaysia, like yep. What brought you to the US. 

Jay: Uh, my ex-girlfriend my ex ex ex-girlfriend she's like, Hey, if you do come to the state, I'm going to the state. If you do come to the state, we're gonna break up. I'm like, ah, sure. Yeah. And also I kind of want to win a Grammy, which never happened.

And, and I'm not sure it's gonna happen, but I'm it would be great if I can win some sort of award, which I'm still working on. And then I'm like, okay, sure. I will go to the states. And then I chose Florida and then she chose Ohio or somewhere. And then I came to the states and then we broke up 

Ryan: So she said you have to come to the states and then, oh, we broke, but you guys didn't go to the same state.

Like you guys. 

Jay: Yeah. Because I'm the kind of person that I don't want to hold anyone back, you know? I don't want to tell you where I'm gonna go and then you're gonna go to that state. And then you're like, that's school is not what I wanted, and then you're gonna resent me. I'm like you, at least we are in the same states, it's not that bad.

And then, we fight and then we ended up, broke up, broken up. 

Ryan: Do you still do music? Do you still mix music? 

Jay: Not as much anymore. Once in a while I would do, but I haven't done music in a while. The last time I did music was in 2017 or 2018, and then once I start working fulltime in podcasting, I just didn't have that much time to do music anymore.

 The closest thing that I did music for is when I go through intro music , for our subseries, I will go through the music. I will buy them and then I will move stuff around. So it doesn't sound actually you know how it is. I will move stuff around. I will maybe add a couple sound effects or maybe stuff that I think it should be in there.

Based on the concept that I will, I did that and put that in there. That's the closest thing to music that I've done in the past couple years. 

Ryan: Oh, I see. I see. 

Jay: But it was still fun. It was still really fun. It was like, once the music is done, like this sounds so much better, you know, suit. It is so much better to fit the theme that we want the sub series to be.

And then, yeah, I'm happy. 

Ryan: Yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up because I was wondering that when I listened to the show, I'm wondering, I was like, oh, this is new music. And I was wondering, I wondered if you did it, so that's awesome. 

Jay: Yeah. I didn't write it. I just buy it.

There's a couple music that, that I would go through and then I'm like, oh, this is nice. And then we buy it. And then I would just move stuff around, I'm like, this should, how this, because we only have 30 seconds to play around with, or maybe less sometimes, especially the stinger.

And then also the outro, that's why my intro music and my outro music always sounds a little bit different because I want the outro to feel like the outro. It's not like the intro again. So it is still the same. It still come from the same piece of music, but I just, you just added differently.

How do you make the outro feel like an outro? Is it just the descending music or. 

Well. For outro music for me, depends how you want the outro to be. Everyone has different way to do it. Sometimes your outro start before it actually ends, , I'm sure they'll start,

like when they like, oh, thanks for coming on. And then you hear the outro music. Some is like, the outro comes right when the outro music is done, not just the episode is done. So for the one that, come right, when the episode is done. I usually start right when the end of the chorus, like the last chorus, when it's really hype up in the music.

So it started loud and then slowly go out. And then, if something has to lead into the outro music, then I will start with the interlude, like music have, I dunno if you do know, music,

Ryan: Not really, not really,

Jay: but so like music usually have intro chorus. Verse chorus,

and then sometimes they have interlude like interlude or bridge or something like that, then yeah. Those will start with the bridge and go right into the last chorus. So that song can resolve very quickly. At least that's how I treat music 


Ryan: Oh, that's, that's interesting.

As somebody, that's pretty music illiterate and has been their whole life, like I'm the kind of, I'm the type of person that just listens to music and I'm just like, oh, I like that. Oh, I don't like that. And I've never really thought about it in a discerning fashion. So yeah, that, that's interesting.

 But yeah, that makes sense. Thinking about it as far as you-, 

Jay: Right? Yeah, because everyone-

Ryan: go ahead. 

Jay: And also everyone has a different, everyone has a different. 

Music is subjective. 

Feel good. If you like, it's subjective, right? So like as long as you like it, as long as you like how it sounds. It's good for you.

But for me, it's everything has to be conceptualize. I think that's the right way. Yeah. , I like everything, the same thing. And then I like how it has to tie into different things I like the format of, of the music, but if you like, a piece of music and you like your thing, it should be like this, then you should be able to do that too.

That is, like I said, music is very very subjective. 

Ryan: Right? Absolutely. It's art in general. 

Jay: Oh yeah. . No one can look at the art and this is and be like, Hey, this is one and this is two. Yeah. Like it could be one for you, but it could be five for me. Yeah. Like art and music is definitely subjective.

Everything is subjective. In real life. 

Ryan: How did you get into like making the transition from music to spoken word to the podcasting realm? 

Jay: So out of them doing music. I also, like during the time I also do a lot of voiceover and also, post-production recording in terms of like if someone want to overdub a movie or whatever, they'll come to our studio, I would start recording , the words. They look at the screen and then they hear the beep and then, they started acting and then they just say the word.

 I'm not sure. So that's called overdub. I do a lot of overdub and voiceover and, for me, I think my strong suit is still on voiceover. Even back then when I was doing music, I like doing music, but I'm really good at doing voiceover. I reach a point that I can record and adlib at the same time.

I will look at the script, right? And then if there's any, so let's say if like a three paragraph script, I will mark all the mistakes and then between paragraph I will, what I call punching and punch out, which I start recording and start recording right away. And then I will also anticipate when the voice over artist is gonna breathe and then I will start punching in and out right there.

Right then. So like sometimes I only have 0.5 seconds to work with. So I always freeze up the computer because I move so quickly. The computer can't really keep up even right now. Like the computer still can't keep up. It's more of the program can't keep up. So I will mark it and then I will be able to look at the script, look at the wave form and know exactly what, which is, which wave form, and then cut it during the recording, happening at the same time. I usually can do that. So I'm pretty good at spoken words already and then one day James just come in because apparently our studio was like a block away from where he was living then.

So, James, if you don't know, James, I think between 2013 to 2000, at least 17, he was living from Airbnb to Airbnb at the time he was leaving the minimalist lifestyle and then my studio so happened to be really close by and he comes in and then I started my, what I call the first podcast recording that I ever have.

And then I'm like, I'm gonna use fanciest mic ever. And which is reach out to be a mistake. And then, I started recording and I'm like, this is great. There's no format that just having a conversation. And I learned so much myself. So I started, recording podcast with James and then this is great.

I felt like this is way better than music because there's no format. You go in, you do things, you wouldn't know what you get that's how I get into podcast. 

Ryan: What made the podcast great. What about it? What were you drawn to? 

Jay: You mean podcast in general?

Ryan: I mean just when you were like this podcast, this is great. Was it just the unscripted nature of it just coming from such a scripted thing? 

Jay: It is, yeah. It's the unscripted nature of it. Like even in music, like sometimes I prefer to record a jam sessions or like a jazz jam sessions.

They have certain format, it's still unscripted in a sense, but like for the podcast I recorded with James it's so unscripted, you just talk about things and then it like everything to talk about. It's what I related to, like I can relate to introverts, and then, and with, AJ Jacobs, and then I start, I started experimenting what they were talking about in the podcast to myself.

And then I started getting better and better. I'm like, I just want to recap podcast right now you know .Obviously there's some podcasts I'm like, I'd rather not do this because I sort of know what they're gonna say, but you know that's why I still stick with James because his podcast, you never know what he's gonna say.

You know when he's gonna end, but you never know what he's gonna say in between, in between the, during the taping, because at the end of the podcast, you can always tell, any podcast, you can always tell like, oh yeah, so what deal, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, okay, this is ending, 

Ryan: Right, Right. You said. Earlier, you said that the mistake when he first came in, you used like the fanciest mic ever, and that it was a mistake. What mic were you using and why was that a mistake? 

Jay: I was using this mic called Neumann U 87. If there's any audio professional out there listening thenthe know exactly what Neumann U 87 is.

I believe that might cost. I'm not, I dunno what the price right now. I think back then it was like 8,000 a pop, maybe 2000 a pop and then we were using a pair of it and it is usually the microphone that rapper used the rap on, or singer used to sing on like the legendary microphone, the U 87. And then I started using it and I'm like, this is so noisy.

First off and long microphone, fancy microphones usually are not the cleanest because they want the sound, the warm sound that I give. And then also it's a condensed microphone. And if anyone wearing a chain or they are like tapping a desk or whatever, you can hear it right away.

I'm like, this is bad. This is annoying. And I did that for several sessions before. I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna start using, a dynamic microphone, like the SM7B or whatever. And then I'm like, okay, this is a little bit better. This is what I wanted, but I still experiment a lot of different microphone than like I started out with U 87, what they call the large diaphragm condensed microphone, which, pick up everything around you.

And then I went to what they call a small, diaphragm microphone. It's very small diaphragm it doesn't pick up as much, but still like you pick up like all the higher frequency stuff like chain , or pen snapping or pen, right? If you write something on with a pens or you pick up suit, and then eventually I just went with, SM7B, I'm like, okay, , this is what it should be.

This is how it should be. Yeah. It's a lot of try and error then. . 

Ryan: Right and like, do you see with all this, like basically tender love and care? Do you see a difference in the viewership or in the listenership when you have a really well produced, really awesome sounding show. 

Jay: Oh, yeah, for sure. Someone's recording on a phone, right. And then with like tons of background, noise and stuff, you're not gonna share it with your friends. Because you'll probably embarrass yourself, Hey, and then they're gonna be like, if they didn't know anything about the show, they'll listen to the first half and first half minutes, they're like, I dunno, what is this about?

And I can't stand the background noises and then they just turn it off. You know what I mean? So yeah, having a good quality definitely helps. Of course the content definitely needs to be good too, but at least you wouldn't turn people away right away. you still have people who still at least give you a chance to try.

Ryan: Right. That was one of the first thing that was one of the hardest things for me in coming into podcasting or creating any type of video, I guess kind of quickly about my background in like photography and videography and stuff. I started as a photographer, as a kid, I always had like a disposable camera around.

 There wasn't digital cameras yet, or at least there were really,

Jay: oh, so you take, yeah. You take the picture and then throw away the camera. 

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. 

Jay: That's why it's called disposable camera you take pictures this, yeah. And you're like, oh right now. And then just throw it away. 

Ryan: I don't get it 


Jay: Yeah. It's so not sustainable. Greta Thunberg's gonna be so angry about it, you know? 

Ryan: And so coming from that medium, like of photography, I wanted to get into video. And then, so I started like eventually when I got enough money to buy a DSLR camera, I got into video.

Jay: Okay. Right. 

Ryan: But then I started making videos and then I was like, God, the sound is really important, even more so than the obviously what you're seeing matters too, but if people will deal with great new video, more than they'll deal with crappy audio 

Jay: Crappy audio. Yeah. 


Because I feel like audio is a subconscious thing. Right? Like you can hear it and then, and if it doesn't sound good, there's something in you, it's like, Ugh, cringe a little bit. It's weird. Yeah and then it's so weird that I remember when I was doing audio post productions I always tell myself, it's so hard, it's so I'm sure it's equally hard, but it's, I felt like it's a little bit easier to fix. The visual, then the audio, if something goes wrong in the audio, you pick it up right away.

But some if someone let's say like the Game of Thrones, remember, I dunno if you watched Game of Thrones, but there was a big thing about season eight, someone left a coffee cup on the table. Right. If you watch it, you probably would realize unless you watch it like a couple times.

Right. But if someone mess up the audio right there right then you're like, oh, what happened to this audio? You know? 

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of that, I remember when that happened. I. I had to see it, like the memes that were all made of it and stuff like that. Right. I remember thinking to myself, how did that get into the final cut?

Jay: Do you catch it the first time I watched it though? I had to go back. 

I had to go back. Do I catch it the first time? Yeah, I didn't. Are you a star wars fan? 

Ryan: I am a star wars fan in that I've watched every movie, but I've never read any of the books. 

Jay: All right. Okay. Okay. So do you remember in, I think it's the first Star Wars movie back in the days.

I think it's, there's one scene that the Storm trooper was walking through the door and it hit his head. Oh. And then the live in the cut. Yeah. No one realized that. No one realized that happened. They probably have to watch it a couple times. They're like, oh, look at this.

They hit the head, you know? So, but if that's crappy, if the lightsabers sounds weird, then you're like, oh, why is this lightsabers sound like this? 

Ryan: Yeah. And it totally, it's so obvious and it totally destroys the whole ambiance or the whole emotions. 


Jay: The immersive, yeah. The audio is like, what makes you immerse in the movie. You know Jurassic park? We do know how that's, how T-rex sounds for all we know T-rex could be just meowing the whole time back in the Jurassic park era, Jurassic era, you know Steven Spielberg's motto is make believe, they make it so that you will believe it.

 Audio is very, very powerful. 

Ryan: Yeah. Definitely with doing as many. So how long have you been the producer of the James or working on the James Altucher show? 

Jay: So I started as assistant first. I'm not even a, engineer. I started as assistant for James in 2000, I only be assistant for like one session.

That's it. I think it's pretty sure it's 2016. And then for Steven Dubner and James has a show called Questions of the Day for the one sessions. And then they're like, oh, this studio is great. So close. I can walk by and then they started booking the studio with an engineer.

So a lot of my other engineer wasn't available then I'm the only one that available. So they put me on there even though I'm, I think I'm just a junior engineer at that point. And then I started recording it and then I'm like, this is great. And then, I told the studio manager like, Hey, if they book again, just put me on there.

Since I already worked with him, I didn't know me, wanted to keep the relationship going. It's good for the studio as well. And that was so good for the client. So didn't know what to expect every time to come in. And then I started working for James. Record James. It's still part-time because like he still go to other studio as well.

If other studio is available, and then my studio is about to close and I reach out to James. Hey, I can take care of your booking. You don't have to look for studio. You just tell me the time and the schedule, I have a studio network that I know. And then I would just book the studio for you.

You just have to show up and start recording and I would take care of everything else. So I started doing that then only I become fulltime with James because he knows that he has an engineer that he always uses. He know, because one thing about being a producer and a, and an engineer, is learning your client's habit.

So I know his habit, he know how I work. We do have to adjust every time, every time he go to new places, I know what he, exactly what he wanted and how this show should sound. So like even different places I can make it sound similar. Then that's when I started working for him full time in 2017, I believe.

So I've been working with James for holy shit, 7, 9, 22, 5-6 years now. 

Ryan: Oh, awesome. So your studio was closing down and you were reaching out to him saying. He didn't really have a job role open. Right? I mean, you you just- 

Jay: No, no. So first thing I know that he need, definitely need an engineer because I know that he's going from different places to different places.

So he doesn't have a fixed engineer. So technically there's no job opening. There's no job for it, you know? So I'm like, Hey, I just want to, let me take care of you, it's gonna be very simple. So I just created a job for myself. Like I would just be your, at that point I wouldn't consider myself an engineer anymore.

That's more like a studio coordinator. I would coordinate with the client and the studio and then I, I added the engineers head on. 

Ryan: Yeah. What did that look like when you approached him? Was it an email or was it a, 

Jay: oh yeah, it's an email. It's actually through another producer, like, Hey.

I know that the studio is closing. I know that you guys are looking for- you guys always go to a different place to record, but at the time I think he record mainly with me in our studio. I told him my studio is closing. I dunno what your plan is, but I can find other studio for you because that's essentially that's what they wanted.

 It's better to ease up out. It's better to do more, to help artists like so that the producer can focus really just the audio and, and writing, the description and all that stuff. Like, so she doesn't have to reach out to studio and she's not based in, in New York. So she doesn't know the studio scene as well as I do, because I already work in the studio for, at the time I already in the studio scene for three, four years.

So I know exactly what studio is it in New York city, how they charge and how much they charge. I usually find whatever that's respond, reasonable for them and also in their timeframe. So let's say if I reach out to one studio. They're like, oh yeah, we are not available. I'm like, okay, it's fine. And I'll just reach out to edit the studio.

Ryan: Yeah. That's see. That's like amazing. And that's huge. That's something that we try to preach or talk about at least is kind of creating your own job is like not being afraid to just make the suggestion or at least ask. I mean, 

Jay: I mean, I have to say like, it's weird. That was a desperate time for me because I know the studio is closing because I didn't have to worry about my visas and, and my job obviously.

And because as an engineer, you always freelance anyway. So the studio isn't paying you a salary, so I'm desperate. And also I'm worried about my job. Because if that's not what's happening, I wouldn't be asking them because, but the thing is I have no backup plan.

I would just go ask them. So it's the situations that force me into that positions to ask them, which you know, which makes sense for me because a lot of people like to be in comfortable states, but sometimes being in uncomfortable push you to do things that you never imagine, that you would do.

I'm an introvert. I will never ask anyone for anything. And I know this is bad, but like I just bad at asking for help. I'm really bad at asking for help. Like a lot of time, I'm like, you know what? I already do it myself and see where it goes. 

Ryan: Yeah, definitely. I think I'm very similar. I pretty much don't ever ask for help.

 And it's something I'm working on. It's something I'm working on. , 

Jay: it's something that everyone should be working on. Yeah. Because it's hard to ask for help, you know because I felt like there's only that many helps that you can ask before other people will be like, oh, again, roll us out, roll eyes and say again, there's the worst thing was feeling ever.

Ryan: Right. Exactly. But, and I guess it's one of those things that you just let them make that decision. And this is something for a therapy session for me, cuz I deal with it. I deal with this too. And it's like, oh man, I don't know. I need help here, but I don't wanna ask anybody.

I think for me it's a lot of like being a bother. I don't wanna-

Jay: Yeah. It's same with me too. Like I don't wanna bother anyone. 

Ryan: Right. Exactly. And. I'm just like, that's okay. I'll just do it myself but-

Jay: yeah, like, but over the course of the time I did learn that. I will always make sure that I have something else to offer them, like, I know I need help.

I need, I know it's is it it's better if I help them. I will offer something back like, Hey, can you help me do this? I can dogsit your, dog for how however long. So it's like barter system a little bit. Obviously sometimes people will say like, nah, it's fine. You know, I would just help you, but that always stay with me.

Like in the back of my mind, it's like, I owe something to them. If they need anything, I would definitely help them. I think it's also a good way to build relationship too, unless your help is like crazy help, then it's hard.

Ryan: Right? Exactly. Now for working with James for six years. And you're there for most of the recordings. You're kind of a fly on the wall for most of it. 

Jay: Yes. it's, all of them. Yeah. Because I'm full time with James and I'm a producer as well. So like I'm there all the time. 

Ryan: How much do you get out of it?

I mean, just getting all from all these guests, right? 

Jay: Well, I mean, I always try to get something out of everyone and always obviously I can get everything out of everyone, but at some, you know, that's why it's good to be fly on the wall because no matter how bad or how good this conversation is, you're always there.

And then you're just listening. You're just listening and you take note, take mental note and stuff like that. Yeah. So that's why, I love working for James because all the guests that comes on, like Jordan Harbinger and, Mark Cuban, Branson, like people like that when they come on, they have interesting to say interesting things to say, and they learn interesting things, sometimes it's not as self-help as it should be, but at the same time, sometimes you just wanna learn facts. It doesn't have to be self-help, you just like random facts or crypto random crypto facts.

I'm like, this is great. 

Ryan: Yeah. 

It's kind of a added benefit of the whole thing. 

Jay: I mean, at some point I want to get into scripted podcasts, but at the same time, like unscripted podcasts, you learn so many different things, because you never know what what they're gonna Say.

Ryan: Right. Everday is different.

Jay: Every day is very different. 

Ryan: Yeah. Kind of moving around here, we're gonna jump around all over the place. One of the things that, I think I heard you mention before on one of the episodes is that you stream, you're a Twitch streamer. 

Jay: Oh yeah. A very casual Twitch streamer.

Sometimes I stream if I feel like it. And then I'm like, nah 

Ryan: What games do you normally play ? First of all, what's your, I've never watched Twitch or that's a lie I've watched ,

Jay: there's no way, you're not watching 

Ryan: That's a lie. I've watched, I hardly ever watch Twitch streams.

I've usually watched the clips that people people post on YouTube afterwards. I'm like, first generation of nerd of this current, like geek or nerd or whatever. So 15 years ago, when it wasn't cool to play video or like 20 years ago now when it wasn't cool to play video games. 

Jay: I remember my mom, like every time I play a game, my mom was like, oh, you play games again. You have to go study, you have to be engineer or the lawyer or the doctor or the accountant at some point, I'm like, no, but look at the kids play games nowadays I'm making like $4 million, 2 million a year.

I'm like, mom, you should just let me play games. 

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. I know so what is your Twitter handle? What username? What is, 

Jay: I don't even remember. My Twitch channel or Twitter handle 

Ryan: Your Twitch. 

Jay: Oh, it's JFir3man with the E so it's J F I R 3 firemen. I tried to make something out of it.

I appreciate that is because I haven't logged into my Twitch. I haven't streamed in a while now because I was busy moving. 

Ryan: We'll get it. And we'll put it in the show notes for everybody so that they could, so they could, uh, thank you. Follow you and watch it. 

Jay: Once in a While I just play so the game that I play mostly, it's called a game called DOTA Defense of the Ancients so it's a, do you play a team? 

Ryan: I don't play DOTA but I remember when DOTA was not DOTA 

Jay: It was Warcraft 3? 

Ryan: Yes. I was a nerd, like I used to get picked on so much people don't understand.

 That's, when I played Dota, like before it was even a Dota. Yeah. 

It was a custom game before it was, do built off Warcraft 3. 

Jay: It was called Dota Allstar. 

Yeah DOTA All Star 5.63 or something like that. Yeah. I still remember those days. And then, it's crazy because like dollar nowadays, if you go to what they call the TI the international it's like the grand championship. I remember last year the price pool was $40 million. Yeah, 40 million. And if you win first price, I think you get 16 million and you split among five people, whoa, or six people now because including coach.

Yeah. But, but coach is not getting as much. It's each person is getting a couple million dollars. 

Ryan: That's crazy. 

Jay: I know, I'm like, mom, why do you stop me from playing games? 

Ryan: I know. And I remember, so within my group of friends, we're losing so many listeners here, but it's all right. It's okay. 

 Between my group of friends, we, had these two guys, when we were playing, this was halo one days and eventually halo two halo eventually halo two. 

Jay: That was Xbox. Is it? It's not even Xbox 360. It's just 


Ryan: Xbox. It was Xbox one and then yeah, Xbox. Just Xbox. 

Jay: It's just Xbox then Xbox 360.

Ryan: Yeah. 

Jay: They have a weird name ever. 

Ryan: Right?

Jay: Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox one, Xbox One 

Ryan: Yeah, something like that.

Jay: Like what, and then this is such a weird thing 

Ryan: So we were all getting made fun of cuz we were nerds. But then within our group there was two guys they would team up together and they would just practice because they were trying to-

Jay: Okay,

Ryan: This was the beginning of professional gaming,

Jay: eSports.

Ryan: Yeah. Of e-sports. And so they were like really trying to make it. And so they would be, we would see them. Online. And this was Halo 2\ days now, now that I'm thinking about it, this is Halo 2 days. So we would see them online. 

Jay: So there's 2000, 

Ryan: about 2006, maybe 2007, 6, 8, 7. 

Yeah. Something like that.

Yeah. Around the time. Yeah. And 

they're, we see them, they're not playing a game. They're just in a custom game. Just those two. And we would always like ask for an invite and they'd be like, no, we're practicing. We're practicing. They would run around maps and practice their like grenade throws and everything like that.

And right. And I would just like, What are you guys doing? That's not even a job, but 16 years later or whatever it is 15 years later, it's like, oh shit,

Jay: are they making like a ton of money? Are they, are they like proposition? 

Ryan: No, no, no, no. I'm saying it is a job now.

Like, you know, if they were doing that now, no, they're definitely not doing it 

Jay: it's so unfair. Like back then, like if you're a nerd, you play game, you get picked on nowadays you play game. They're like, oh, you, do you play Minecraft? like, uh, that's like, please 

Ryan: It's a big thing in this house because, I was into all of that.

 I'm Japanese and so like right in Hawaii, like being Japanese, growing up in the Japanese household. There was a lot of Japanese things and manga and anime were one of those things, but I was just into them like way before where people would call, I'm like reading, oh, I'm reading comics.

Yeah. I'm like going online to find the, I don't know if you know, Naruto, but of course 

Jay: Yeah. I mean, even though, although, I think Dragon Ball is better than Naruto 

Ryan: Yeah. So when Naruto was like, just coming out, I would, every Thursday it would come out on this website that would translate, all of the Japanese to English for you.

Right. And so I would just read every new episode every Thursday, as it came out live, instead of waiting it for it in written form. And then now I see all these, 

Jay: Because. Comics used to, I mean, not comics, manga used to they used to be on one magazine called Young Jump magazine.

And that's how they come out every week and then they will staple them together and then became issues, manga issues in itself. 

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I didn't want to wait for that. Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to know what happened.

I wanted to know what happened now 

Jay: to Naruto

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. 

Jay: It's every time that's like, is he gonna, is he gonna use his Rasengan or whatever it's called? 

Right. The ball thing. 

Ryan: Um, I it's been years since I've read it. I'm trying to think. 

Nowadays, Boruto now.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Jay: They have kids now and they're writing the kids apparently . 

Ryan: But the reason why I brought up Twitch was I was bringing it up cuz I think, I know that you're, you've got your hand in a lot of things or you're doing a lot of things, or at least you've -=talked about it before on, the, your show or on James's show about having multiple streams of income and doing, doing different things.

So what else are you doing? Is Twitch mainly just for fun or are you doing it to garner an audience? 

Jay: Right. Twitch, for me, it's mainly for fun. Obviously I want be a build audience as well, but at the same time, Twitch is where I can express myself at the same time, because on some certain issues, I'm very opinionated. So like it's just me expressing myself. And at the same time I can play games. And I do think that people get connected better via games for some reason. So if I found another game, if I met another gamer, right now, we will instantly bond. We don't have to talk about oh, crypto or whatever. We just talk about games all day. And I, I love that and yeah, it's mainly for fun. And then, yeah, and then I also doing like site gigs, I didn't write newsletter and all stuff, but I also do like a couple other shows that I will edit and, and mix it at the same time. But yeah, multiple income stream is definitely good.

And, uh, and you know, like streaming it's good, but like streaming it's, it's crazy. Like the people that actually do make money from streaming, they are very disciplined. They will go live every day five to like however long. So they will have a set schedule.

It's like their full time job. For me, I think that's a little bit excessive, first off, , I work for James. Our schedules always changing. Like later I have a sessions to record and then maybe tomorrow's I have a session to record or maybe not. So I just never, I never have a set schedule.

Ryan: Yeah, it's it definitely takes that, discipline, as you said, just this is when people, a lot of people think that you can just log on whenever, but oh yeah. You've people expect you to be on from eight o'clock. Yeah. To noon. And then from one to five, just like a regular job. 

Jay: Yeah. People doesn't think about this, like people that stay on Twitch at certain times.

So let's say if you stream at eight o'clock in the evening, your audience is your viewer is gonna be very different than when you stream at 1:00 PM. So maybe it's different people. Like if you always show up at 8:00 PM, you build a rapport and relationship with that, that viewers that will watch you, and then if you log on at 1:00. PM, all the people, there are just strangers that never, they do know you, you could still do it once in a while, but they do know you or wherever, you still want to stick with that schedule. 

Ryan: Yeah. You mentioned crypto earlier, and I know that you had it on one of your episodes about getting scammed.

Jay: Oh yeah. 

Ryan: Are you still, messing around with the, shit coins as they say? 

Jay: Not as much anymore after that I'm like, I'm a little bit more careful with the shit coins. I would look at their name. I'm like, okay, this is another coin. I'm like, ah, screw this. I'm not gonna do this. I still, but there are some, I wouldn't call shit coins, like some alt coin.

I will look at it and I'll look at their website and then look at their, their functions. I'm like, this could be a very, this could be a thing, in the future, like X, Y, two Y or whatever it's called. And then, , there are a couple merit or coins like that they are. They have some protocol that are really interesting that I would buy in, but I didn't buy as in, I didn't pay cash.

I would just convert whatever that I have into them, because they're essentially on the blockchain. So you can, you can just comfort it over and over. Right. Right. 

Ryan: What do you normally use to, 

Jay: I use Uniswap and, Uniswap is probably the easiest one. That's why everyone's using.

Yeah. I tried Coinbase, you know Coinbase you can convert it itself in the wallet itself. Not the Coinbase exchange the Coinbase wallet. That one is just way too expensive. It is like the gas fee on Uniswap. If it's like $30, it will be $150 on the Coinbase wallet. Depends on what coins you are exchanging converting.

Ryan: Yeah I got maybe like 2021 2020. Yeah. I started doing the alt coin shit coin flipping myself, right? Yeah. I know that you 

Jay: it's very dangerous. 

Ryan: Yeah. I know that you got in 2016, I think I heard, with Ethereum and Bitcoin,

Jay: That was a a real Bitcoin, but I wasn't in that much because I didn't have as much money.

So like that time I buy like $50, wherever very very small amount of money and I stopped buying and then I buy it again. So I didn't have a consistent, I felt like if I have a consistent, if I put consistent money in them, then I would be better. Now I'm trying to put like $50 every a hundred dollars every month.

 I just didn't look at the price as much anymore. If it's go down, go down, it's go up, go up, you know, at least, if it's go down and then put a hundred dollars, it go up. I have more. So I just, I only put it, I only do the one that I believe in like Ethereum, Bitcoin and Solana, actually this free coin that, that I have a recurring reoccurring buy on them.

Ryan: What is the, what's the breakdown? Is it a hundred dollars per or is it a hundred dollars split 30, 30, like 33, 33 33. 

Jay: so like I have a hundred dollars on, so I do a hundred dollars on Bitcoin hundred dollars on Ethereum and $50 on Solana. So Solana is still pretty new. It has some great potential, but the thing is if Solana went up a hundred percent, I would, I still make money, but if so, go away, I don't lose as much.

Ryan: Right, right. 

Yeah, definitely. That's kind of the same thing for me. I got into Bitcoin, not so much Ethereum, but Bitcoin in like 2016, I was trying to, 

Jay: oh, that's good. 

Ryan: I was trying to, uh, it's funny. I don't think I've ever said this, but I was trying to gamble online. Like I'm I grew up.

So in Hawaii. Well, I wanna say in Hawaii, well, in Hawaii, the sports gambling is very big. So betting on like football games. Yeah. Very, very big. And there's a,

Jay: I feel like isn't that just a Asian culture? I mean it's everywhere, but Asian culture, especially Asian, like would do that way more often.

Ryan: Yeah. I, I definitely think so. I definitely think so. Cause it's all on my,

Jay: yeah,

Ryan: it's not so much on my. I'm Japanese-Chinese in Hawaiian. So it's not so much on my Japanese side, but on my Hawaiian, I mean, on my Chinese side, Chinese. 

They're degenerate. They're degenerate. 

Jay: I know, I know. I don't know why. I think it's a culture, it's a culture thing, gamble, like we play Mahjong all the time and we have to put money and playing Mahjong like, I started playing Mahjong with money when I was seven years old.

Ryan: Right, right. Exactly. 

Jay: It's very like, it's very small money, but we still do it, you know?

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. And so that's really big. So I grew up gambling and when I moved away, I was looking for a place to gamble and I couldn't. So I looked up online, there was this sketchy website and it said

Jay: sketchy.

Ryan: Yeah, it was sketchy. And I was just like, I was like, we take, we accept Bitcoin. I was just like, I have no idea what this is, but I need to get some Bitcoin so that I can move it over to this website so that I can gamble. 

Jay: How do you buy Bitcoin then? Like it wasn't, there's no exchange selling bitcoin back 

Ryan: Back then?

No, I think there was, I think 

Jay: wait 2016. Okay. That's I think Coinbased yeah. 

Ryan: Coinbase is how I bought it. That's why, so there was, it wasn't as user friendly as it is now obviously. I had to like, look, I didn't know what it was. I was just like, whatever this is, I'm gonna do it. Right. And so I ended up buying, I think it was like 500, a 500 a piece at the time.

And I ended up buying like five, cuz I was just a 

Jay: holy shit. Good. If you keep the, if you keep it, you had a lot of money. 

Ryan: Yeah. I wish I had just kept all of it. And, but I, I ended up gambling most of it away. And then I, 

Jay: Oh no

Ryan: I held onto a little bit and then I didn't re-up until like maybe 2019 2018.

Jay: Yeah. Because 2019 is everyone's saw the potential, right? Yeah. But it's funny. I have bought some Bitcoin and bought some crypto. I didn't converting them. I don't think I've sold any of them. I don't think I've sold any of the Bitcoin. I'm just holding them.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. 

I guess, what do you think, what are you holding on for and what do you think the future is? 

Jay: I don't know I would just holding on, so hopefully it will go up higher. And also hopefully, it will actually replace, I wouldn't say replace money. Everyone say it's gonna replace money.

I don't think it's gonna be a hundred percent replace cash or whatever. People still need cash. at least not in the, in 10, not in next five or 10 years. I was hoping that it will cause this, like almost like right now, but like a little bit more coexist. And right now, you can still buy with Ethereum if you want to.

But at the same time you can buy with cash if you want to. And then, ,I can start using them because Bitcoin is so much, you probably wouldn't buy things with Bitcoin. You probably buy thing with the Satoshi unit of it. You didn't buy, you didn't buy like 0.5. You didn't buy things for 0.5 Bitcoin or maybe grocery for 0.5 Bitcoin.

You probably buy grocery with like hundreds of Satoshi or 200 of Satoshi or something like that. 

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing to see how far the industry has come. Six years ago. It's just,

Jay: I know 

Isn't US trying to pass a bill on Bitcoin and stuff like that. 

Ryan: I think I read an article on that.


Jay: You know, when it's gonna get big it's when IRS starting asking you money for it. When IRS is like, Hey, you buy all this Bitcoin, you saw this, we can make all this money. Give me some, give it some money. Yeah. Local Sam is, 

it's getting big. 

Ryan: Sam is always gonna want, uh, his fair share.

Jay: And then if they realize, oh, they can make a lot more money of it. They're gonna make it, they're gonna regulate it, which is good. Without regulations, they're not gonna trust anything. The government not gonna trust anything. So I do mind some regulations 

Ryan: Yeah.

To jump around the kind of bringing it back on par with this podcast. This is called the Degree Free podcast. And so I kind of wanted to know, what are your degree? What are your views on college? And I think if I did my research right, I think you have an associate's degree. 

Jay: Yep. I have an associate degree and, I didn't have an undergrad or whatever.

Uh, and also I get the reason why I get associate degree is because of my ex ex ex-girlfriend because, gonna break up in Malaysia as it came to the states and get an associate degree so I can be here. I would say like high ed, higher educations, like doctor, or maybe I'm not so sure about lawyer, but doctor, for sure. You probably definitely need degrees. Right? You have, people have to make sure you're certified as long as you're certified, not as satisfied, but a lot of other things that you didn't really need a degree for. As an Audio engineer, do I really need to study other engineer?

I might as well just intern for people, like, free internship for like a year or two. And then I start, you start become an assistant and that's how you get money, you know, that's how you, you make money and then you. James doesn't asked me what degree do I have before he hired me, you know, in the studio, when I go apply for an internship in the studio, they look at my, they, they stare at my resume for two seconds and then they're like, okay, sure. You're hired . Yeah, they're not, they don't ask me like, what console, what stuff that I know, it would be great. It would be helpful, but all that you could still learn by interning. I would say having a mentor is better than, better than having a degree, you know? 

Ryan: Yeah. Having somebody that's kind of been there, kind of showing, showing you the ropes. Yeah. Well, you said that when you first came, you had to go to college. Was that the way that you were here for your visa or something like that or you wanted to go? 

Jay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I also wanted to go to the studio. I wanted to go to school because I wanted see like how different they teach and, like every like Asian country and Western country back then is, has have a very different approach in recording music and mixing music in terms of music, productions, audio productions, very different approach.

So I sort of want to go there and sort of learn like how it is and it's the easiest way is go to a college, you know? So we don't even, and I don't know anyone here. So the easiest way for me to go to another states or another state, another country is through educations. Also I can learn how to fit into the Western culture because I'm from, I live in Malaysia my whole life.

So I think that's a good way of educations and degree works. If you go to another country for different exposure, because you still have to learn sort of the culture and stuff like that. But I would say most of, more often than none, you probably don't need, unless you are a doctor, maybe you will need. 

Ryan: Yeah.

Jay: Some degree 

Ryan: When you first moved here to the us, did you, you knew English already, right? Cause you, that was one of those things you studied. 

Yeah. In Malaysia and in Southeast Asia in general, like people are pretty fluent in English. We watch a lot of American movies. That's how we learn.

And, and in Malaysia, English is sort of like a second language. In Singapore it's a first language. Malaysia is second language in Thailand. Like. People can sort of speak spoken English. It's like, you can still communicate with them. Most of the people can still speak English. And then I came here. I have a lot more opportunity to practice. That's how I, become better at my English.

Jay: Yeah. What led you from? Okay, so you've you graduated? What led you to New York? How did 

you end up? Oh, it was my, I have a friend that lives in New York and then they're like, yeah, I just came over, rent. I can get you a very cheap deal for the rent.

I think I was paying, 300 or $400 a month in New York city, but I have like 1, 2, 3, I have three roommates in the house. And then no, three, four, I have six roommates in house. It's a townhouse. We have six, I have six roommates. So like that, that's why the rent is so cheap. And then I'm like, oh, it's cheap, it's New York. I'm just gonna go hang out and see what's gonna happen. So I went to New York. 

Ryan: Yeah. 

Jay: And New York. It's great. If you are single, you still trying to figure stuff out and you want to figure out what you're going next. New York is great, and then once you figure out, New York is a little bit too expensive.

Ryan: Yeah. New York is a little expensive.

Where did you, where did you live in New York? Like what area? , 

Jay: I was living in Queens and then I live and then I moved to Apple West Side before I moved to Atlanta. So now I'm in Atlanta,

Ryan: How do you like, Atlanta versus New York, 

Jay: Man, it's so much quieter, so much more. It's so much more peaceful and people here are nice, like. It's it's it's I feel like it's like a political thing. Like every time, like was in New York, I'm like, ah, I'm thinking about moving to Georgia people like, Ugh, Georgia are the worst state ever. I'm like, well, is it that bad?

And they're like, well, yeah, look at their politics, blah, blah, blah. First off I can't vote because I'm not a US citizen. Second of all, I'm Asian. So it's always white people versus black people than Asian people. I'm sure. I'm sure you, I'm sure you deal with the same if they have to serve anyone in the line, they go with the white people versus black people and then Asian people we had last because we don't make noise.

Yeah. And so like, like political politics doesn't really affect me, you know? Like I, I have no say in politics at all. 

Ryan: Yeah. Um, that, that was one of the things that I was surprised with as well about Georgia or even the south in general. I coming from Hawaii. You don't know anything.

Jay: Oh, you in Texas, right?

Ryan: Yeah. So I'm in Texas now, but I used to live in Savannah. I used to live in Savannah, North Carolina. I used to live. I used to live in New York, but I didn't live in New York. I lived in Westchester a little outside. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so I've lived, I lived all over and, one of the things before I moved to Georgia, people were like, same thing.

They were like, oh man, I don't know. It's super racist over there and this and that, this and that. And I went and I was just like, people here are great. They're nice. 

Jay: Right? I mean, I do have to say, I do heard that. Atlanta and Savannah are like the two best place to be in, in Georgia.

So if you go out from, if you go out from the two states, maybe a little bit different, but I came down here, it's like, I told people, I go to Atlanta. I mean, it's, it's great. You know?

Ryan: Yeah. It is, it is. Atlanta's beautiful. And Savannah, if you ever get the chance to make that drive this Savannah, 

Jay: I'm thinking about, yeah.

It's like what two, three hours drive 

Ryan: it's a little further than that, but yeah. It's definitely worth it even for just for a weekend. It's one of the most beautiful little town cities I know. 

Right. I 

Jay: always heard about, I always heard good things about Savannah.

Ryan: Yeah. And there's a lot of,

Jay: you know, and the name is, yeah.

The name is so nice to say to, Hey Savannah. 

Ryan: Yeah. 

Jay: You know, so, you know, so yeah. I definitely want to visit at some point. For sure. 

Ryan: There are a lot of people listening that might. A lot of people that listen to this podcast, they, they don't know what they want to do. Like they they're a little lost in their career and they like to try different things.

And if somebody wanted to be an audio engineer, if somebody wanted to be a podcast producer, like what would be some of the first steps that you would tell somebody like, what's the first advice that you would give? 

Jay: Okay. I think this is pretty okay advice. I dunno if I'm in that position to give that advice because I never know what I want to do, you know?

But I, I just enjoy doing audio in general. If you give me a piece of audio to, to fix with a good content and doesn't sound bad if once I fix it, I'm like, okay. Oh man, I feel so satisfied. But, if you get into a podcast, producer or editor, just start a podcast, because then you know how the process is, right.

So let's say you want to start a podcast and you want to buy a podcast equipment. The first thing you do is you research the, you research on the internet, like how people buy podcast equipment that's then you know, you have skin in the game, you sort of need to figure out for yourself the, what is that's actually essentially what happened to me.

Like I have to figure it for myself. I try to record my own singing at home. I can't figure it out. I try to find things. And then I'm like, okay, I learned these tactics. I'm gonna apply it to my, to other people like. I never done streaming before. And then I think James should do streaming. So I started doing it myself.

I started doing like OBS and stuff like that. And I'm like, okay, this works. I'm like, James, this is how you do it. So you always do it yourself first, treat yourself as a Guinea pig and experiment on anything that you want to, and then, you give it to other, then you teach it to other people.

So that's, it is the easiest way is to, start something yourself. 

Ryan: Yeah, definitely. I think it's one of the things that people are, a lot of people are afraid of is just kind of starting things and I get it. 

Jay: Oh man,

Ryan: I get it. 

Jay: Yeah. I get it. It's so hard to say things because like you had to think about, I was thinking this the other day too, a lot of people like, oh, you're afraid of doing something. Just start, you know, just start I'm like that. It's not that easy. You don't just start. Because if it's that easy, if someone has like illness or disease, you can just say oh, it's not that hard. You can just be better, then you be better.

No, it's this doesn't work that way. You have to go over a lot of mental obstructions, it's all about your mental states, like people are like, oh, maybe it's not good. And now maybe people have done it before.

I would say, just start very small one. Like, just, even if you don't start, you just do a mock up. Just imagine if you want to have a podcast, what would you do? What's the first step you want to do? I think there's a lot of free course out there. Maybe one day I will do the course as well, but there's tons of free course out there to help you start a podcast.

Ryan: Yeah. 

With the podcast that you work on is, are you in charge of being the producer? Are you in charge of all like the social media posting, creating the thumbnails and all that, 


Jay: Yep. Yeah. I mean like some other shows that have the dedicated people that do that, but for our show, it's literally just a three man show just me and a podcast editor. And then James, just literally three of us, we just do. And then I'll just handle all the recording, the thumbnail, the social media, writing, the descriptions, listening, uh, sound check, uh, air check, quality check. and then I have to deal with ads and I have to talk to like different hosting platform.

Like, Hey, we want to do this. And that will come up with ideas like, Hey, maybe we should start doing this. That's why you see that we have so many subseries because I'm like, I wanna do all this, but I don't understand a new feed because you're gonna lose a lot of like, you know, that's no way for us to compare.

So I'm like, we're just gonna do all this. We're gonna start at Friday, we're gonna do my favorite things. We're gonna do make your millionaire. We're gonna do Wall Street Insane. And now we just started a new series called Who Are You? That was fun, and I'm like, oh, we just figure out all the audio stuff after, and then all the pie, all.

Or the new subseries or the new artwork. It's all from me. I just did it all then by myself. 

Ryan: Yeah. 

That's a lot of work. That's, 

I give it to you.

Jay: Yeah. I mean, it's, a lot of work, but at the same time, like it's not, it's not something that, you know, you would get burn out of because every time you start a new series, it's literally just a new series.

And then you're like, oh, this is cool. Oh, I didn't know this work, it's something that you experiment and it works and you're like, okay, this is cool. So, I'm just curious, do you see different artwork on the show? 

Ryan: Do I personally, as a consumer of your show? No, not I don't not really.

I'm well, listening on podcasts. I always listen on, I listen to your show on PocketCasts. 

Jay: Oh, do they show different artwork for different aspects?

Ryan: They just show the dot the regular one in the RSSV. 

Jay: Ah, yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, because Apple Podcasts the same, like Spotifys show different artwork because that's ultimately our idea is we want to be almost like a TV a little bit, so like everyone can choose what they want to listen to.

That's why we have different artwork and different intro music, but which is your favorite intro music. 

Ryan: Oh, that's a good, that's a good question. The, oh, which one was I just listening to? It was you and 

Jay: What is it? 

Ryan: Nathan, oh, that was a while. Yeah, it was a while ago. I went back to, to listen to in preparation for this one.

 And I was like, oh, I was like, Oh, okay. I like this one. 

Jay: We started doing that and then we stopped doing that, because everyone's got busy and then we realized it doesn't add anything to the show right now and then maybe we'll do it again in the future. 

Ryan: Yeah. It was good. It was good to, as a listener of the show is a good, I could see how, what you said it may, it might not have gotten the most listens ever, but as a consumer of the show is kind of a nice thing to peel back the curtain on what you guys have seen.

Jay: That was a fun one, but the thing is like a lot of time. It's also there's only so far we can peel back on before everything's gonna be the same. So that's why we only do a couple episodes. And then we just okay, let's give you a rest.

Maybe we'll do a couple more episodes, like either in a couple months or something like that. 

Ryan: What, whatever happens to that. I think James was gonna do you guys were gonna do a, I was wrong or something and you guys were gonna do one on college. 

Jay: Oh yeah. Yeah. We would do one and then we would do one on college and then James got busy with chess.

Oh, okay. So now he's all in the chess now, man, we should revisit then. Uh, I was wrong because that was a good one. The homeowner was good. We got a lot of good feedback of that because back then it's everyone was trying to buy a house because, that was when the housing market was really good then.

Um, yeah, we should, we would definitely revisit them at some point, but right now we have so many new series, one series that we we were really excited about was the Wall Street Insane. I don't know if you've heard any of the, 

Ryan: yeah, I love it. It's a great series. I think it's only two episodes so far, at least that I've listened to.

Jay: Yeah. Only two episodes. And then, we're gonna have more coming out like our, when it's funny, because that episodes came to my mind. It's when James and Omit talking about crypto, the first time, and then after the podcast they were just talking about, oh yeah, remember, remember this, this, I. After that I'm like, James, you should definitely do a series on just you talking about what happened to you.

Like why is every bad things happen to you and around you? So that's why that show started. And then we pull in some, his business partner that never done the podcast before we pull him in. And that was great too, I'd never know. I didn't know he was so good at storytelling and stuff like that.

I'm like, this is great. And then I created an artwork, make it a little bit like eighties a little bit, because it's even though it's in the nineties, or 2000, but it still felt like a eighties time because it's so long ago. And then I just use, I just pick a music that's similar to, what's called billions, what's it?

Billions the show. So it was a little bit like R&B genre a little bit, a little bit dark gritty. And then it's also showcase that, new York city at that time was. Greedy, dark, and crazy a little bit. So that's why I chose that. The intro music. 

Ryan: Yeah. That, that, that was gotta be one of my, favorite little mini series that you guys do. 

Are all those mini series, a lot of 'em are their, your brainchild, like a lot of the ideas?

Jay: Yes. Yeah. The House of Friday was James and I, because during the time it was locked down and I think we were doing IG live and then James came out a lot of, James found a lot of like ways that people can make money because it was locked down. No one can go out and work. So, um, and then James, like, Hey, I think we should do a House of Friday.

And I'm like, oh yeah, sure. And then I just did the artwork and then did everything. And then we do a whole series and then the series ended because things are opening up again and then everyone's already going back to work. We felt like it's not necessary to have a S house or Friday anymore. So we like, okay, let's stop that because everyone's doing what they were doing any already.

I remember James was talking to someone about stuff that he's really interested in, and then I'm like, James, you should do my favorite thing. So we did a couple episode on that. I think it was movie and books and stuff like that. And then he sort of got into chess and he got busy, so we stopped and we started, I was wrong.

 And then that sort of stopped as well, because then he got COVID then. That's a couple months that we have no recording and I'm like, we just do whatever that we have to make sure that the show is afloat. And then after that companion podcast came on, because I'm like, whoa, you know what?

I think people should know what's going on behind the scene, you know, uh, how shitty I'm guessing this . So we did that, and then we did, and then James always wanted to do a show called he will pick a person and make them into a millionaire. He pitched a show to Fox and stuff like that.

They, you know, didn't get picked up. I'm like we can do it as a podcast. And then we just pick a couple people in conjunction of promoting the book, skip the line. And then we did that for a couple episodes. Now we stopped because everyone is going towards that, that directions now. So we, we sort of stop.

That's how we met James Quandahl too, and he's great. He's on your show and he's great. Such a great guy. And then James has been doing podcasts for so long. He has so many self-help people on, and then he's like, oh, I kind of want to pivot to story. I'm like, okay, let's do Wall Street Insane.

You and Omit talk about this so much. And it was great. I think it could be a great series. So we started that. And then now I started another series called, Who Are You? Because, he has the idea of wanting to interview strangers no one knows about I'm like, I will see what I can do.

So we brought on my friend, Brian Lawler, which has crazy stories. I dunno if you heard. That became the first episode and then, but the episode's gonna be monthly released rather than weekly release, because it's not easy to find stranger to have that. 

Ryan: Right. Right, right. And did you find that more difficult?

 I haven't listened to the episode yet. Was it more difficult to. Because they don't have maybe something that they wanna talk about or,

Jay: Yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to find because like some people, they only have one thing they want to talk about. I just have to make sure they have multiple stories that can talk and they can last for an hour, because that's our durations.

And at the same time to make sure that story is legit, that's a hard part. Right. And then also at the same time to make sure they have equipment, you know, and stuff like that. So it's hard in that sense, but the editing and the post-production is pretty easy. I remember someone sent me a feedback, like tattoo was great because. It's so different and now it's so raw. So I want the rawness to come out in a series because what you hear is what you get, you know?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Jay, I wanna be respectful of your time. ,

Jay: Oh, thank you so much.

Ryan: My last question is where do I send people to learn more about you?

Um, they can follow you on Twitch we'll put that in the show notes. Where else? 

Jay: Yeah. They can follow me on Twitter. My Twitter is at J underscore, Y O W 0 7, and LinkedIn, and then the James Altucher Show . 

Ryan: Last question, do you ever have, do you have plans on starting your own podcast?

Jay: I do. I have a couple in mind, but I don't think any of them is suitable for regular audience. I have one called Asian reading American headline. So I would have doing a persona doing a China Chinese persona, and because some headlines is just weird or just funny and just doesn't reflect how it is in, in the paper or especially the Amber heard and Johnny Depp's, trial, the headline is always weird. So I'm like, if I'm Asian and I read this headline, what I think, I throw that idea to a couple of my friends. I'm like, I don't know, this seems a bit racist. I'm like, oh, I'm Asian just having my own accents and read headline, how is that racist?

or they're like, oh, this that's way too political, but I just wanna make fun of stuff. 

Ryan: Yeah. Right, right on, uh, the, when you make that podcast, definitely let me know. I'll be your first listener. 

Jay: Yeah. Yeah, you can come on. We can talk about the, the headline. Yeah. Because some headline just observes like, Hey, Amber Heard get more, uh, Aquaman screen time.

Now I'm like, what about Ukraine and Russia? We heard about the war and then joining them and Amber Heard happening and then we just never heard about the war until like recently again. 

Ryan: Right. Exactly. Yeah. I thought that was strange too. 

Yeah. But, Jay, thank you so much for your time.

This has been great. 

Jay: Thank you so much for having me on it's is wonderful. It's great. I love it all. It's the next time. 

Ryan: Bye. 

Jay: All right. See ya. Bye. 

Ryan: I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I did. If you guys want the show notes to everything that we talked about, the links are gonna be at degreefree.co/jayyow J A Y Y O W.

You can also just go to degree free.co/podcast, and it'll show up right there as well. Couple things before you leave, if you haven't already, please sign up for our newsletter degreefree.co/newsletter it comes out once a week and it has degree free jobs, tips, resources that you can use to get hired without a degree.

Second, if you guys wanna support the podcast, please consider leaving us a review anywhere you get your podcasts. And if you guys wanna reach out, we always love to hear from you contact at degreefree.co, send us an email, let us know what's on your mind. Maybe you have an idea for an episode, or you just want to say hi, whatever it is, just let us know.

All right, until next time guys. Aloha.

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