PA Drops Degree Requirements For 92% of Jobs, UPS Drivers vs. Doctors, Who Makes More?(DF#90)

Ryan: Aloha folks and welcome back to Degree Free, where we teach you how to get the work you want without a college degree. We are your hosts, Ryan and Hannah Maruyama. It is great to have you back. 

Hannah: Welcome back. Welcome back to the podcast. Ryan and I are stoked to have you folks on listening to us as always.

Ryan: Yeah, today we are continuing on with our experimental new format, so definitely let us know what you think about this. Go to YouTube and in the comments of this video. Good, bad. Thumbs up, thumbs down, let us know. 

Hannah: Yeah, we're pretty stoked on it, so we hope you are too. But without further ado, let's get into it.

Okay. So we have a pretty cool headline here, and that is, and this happened last year, I talked about this on TikTok. The first state to remove their [00:01:00] degree requirements was actually Maryland, and this was last year that they did this. So 2022, they removed degree requirements, and I remember at the time I said, this is gonna happen so fast. States are gonna start dropping like flies, removing degree requirements cuz they have jobs they gotta fill and it's very silly and what's funny is you and I did an episode about this, actually you and I ballpark, we made a rough estimate of how many, what percentage of jobs actually require a college degree.

Like require it for licensure, require it in order to actually legally give people jobs. And I think we landed somewhere between five and 8% of jobs in the US actually require college degrees. The rest of 'em, most people can do most jobs. That was our conclusion, and that was just our rough math, right? Math in public, really rough. 

So keep that in mind. Keep that number in mind. 5-8%. So in his first act as governor, the governor of Pennsylvania, the new governor of Pennsylvania, governor Shapiro, removed degree requirements for as many state jobs as he could and guess what percentage of jobs that affected in the state of Pennsylvania?

Ryan: Percentage wise? 80%. [00:02:00] 

Hannah: 80%. That's a good guess. That's kind of, that was my guess too. It's 92%. That's how many jobs were requiring college degrees and now do not cuz it was completely unnecessary. 92% of state jobs in the state of Pennsylvania have removed their degree requirements. how ridiculous Is that? 

Ryan: Well, that's awesome.

Hannah: No, I mean, ridiculous. Like crazy. It's crazy that they were keeping people out of those jobs and now, and it was cool because I was listening to the Governor's speech on it, and he spoke very strongly that he just thought it was nonsense, that it's been like that. And it was very cool that was his first priority going into his new office.

Was to open up jobs to people who are degree free and just let them apply for jobs that they want. So I thought that was really cool. He is not the only one. So after Maryland and in between Pennsylvania, Utah actually rolled back degree requirements for most of their state jobs as well. So this is a trend and I think that this is probably, this is probably gonna continue.

I mean, you and I obviously think this is gonna continue, but it's following a national trend where employers [00:03:00] across the board are actually. Increasing their down credentialing as we know, it's the great down credentialing. So people are just removing degree requirements right and left. As companies try to figure out what the criteria for hiring should be as college degrees are no longer a good measurement for skill or merit.

Ryan: Yeah, definitely. As we've talked about many times in the show, the college degree might have in the past been useful to be a stand in for X set of skills, whether that's communication, writing, critical thinking, that's what it used to do but nowadays it's not like that. With the degree inflation that has happened and with the assessments of these college graduates coming out of school, they're not doing well according to the college learning assessment.

Hannah: Yeah. The CLA 

Ryan: yeah, the cla like 40% or something like that. 

Hannah: 45%

Ryan: .Yeah, 45% of college graduates like can't understand a credit card brochure. 

Hannah: Yeah. They don't have the basic [00:04:00] comprehension skills enough. Of course the colleges didn't like that and , after they all agreed that the CLA was a good test to measure themselves, why when they came out so poorly on it, they suddenly decided that it wasn't a good measurement. 

Ryan: And so it makes sense now for companies to go back on it and say, okay, well, this no longer serves our purposes and we are going to eliminate the degree requirements from the jobs because we are eliminating a lot people and because unfortunately a lot of people self eliminate, which if you're listening to this podcast, 

Hannah: 78% of women, actually too, especially, were the worst. Men, do it at 60% and women do it at 78%.

Ryan: Yeah. I'm squarely in that 60%, or I used to be. Yeah. When we first started this podcast, I went back and listened to some of the earlier episodes that we had and man, ooh, what a doozy. 

Hannah: We're better now, folks, we promise.

Ryan: Yeah, hopefully a little bit. But I remember you asking me a question and you said, would I now apply to a job that says like Masters or PhD required?

And [00:05:00] I kind of flounder on the answer, you know? If I can find it, I'll try to put it in, try to link it in the show notes, degreefree.co/podcast, and I'll try to put the timestamp on it. I floundered on the internet and I was like, well, I guess maybe but that was that same 60% mindset that I had even at the beginning of this show.

And now that I've met way more people, it's my job now to interview degree free people and to help degree free people get the work they want without that college degree, I can squarely say that I'm no, no longer amongst that 60%. And yeah, I would definitely apply to jobs that say masters or PhD required because it doesn't matter.

Companies don't care. And if they do care, they won't hire you. 

Hannah: What's really happening here too? And the thing that, the thing, this is the million dollar question, the billion dollar question, I think too at this point and they asked it. I was watching an ABC news piece. Uh, Uh, governor Shapiro talking about rolling back the degree requirement, and in it, the question that was asked was, how do companies now measure people, right?

Because that's the reason they were [00:06:00] using college degrees. It was the easiest, most accessible measurement that they could use to measure an individual's. Basically employee quality of general employee qualities, I think is the way to define it and so now the question, the million dollar, million, billion dollar question is how do you measure people now? And that, especially with the rise of AI and people being worried about discrimination, which does exist in ai because it's AI will just read and it'll see what people's choices are. It's gonna take those things into account. It'll see who gets hired for which roles, and then it's gonna look for like people.

The problem with that is a lot of recruiters in HR have college degrees, and so those people are going to hire people with college degrees cuz they're like them, right? People tend to hire people that are. People that are like them or at least share some qualities with them.

Ryan: Well, it's just bias. Right?

And that's what our whole podcast is about, which is eliminating that paper bias. Right, right. Eliminating that college bias. That's, if you're listening to this, I think you, you get that as [00:07:00] well. That's exactly what we're trying to do, is just get rid of that discrimination because that's what's happening.

Yeah. Like you're discriminated against people because they decided to

Hannah: Make a purchase.

Ryan: Right. Or not make a purchase. Right. Rather. What's interesting about the credentialing system, and I'm just, it's the infancy of me doing research on this, and so I don't have a fully formed opinion, and I don't have the facts straight yet, but I'll kind of give you a glimpse into one of the topics that I'll be discussing in a future episode.

Maybe in a week or two when I've done a little bit more research on this. I was wondering how the student debt crisis kind of started and it all kind of stems back to 1967 or so. Mm-hmm. , when they made federal loans for students. 

Hannah: Yeah. They incentivize the behavior that they wanted, which was debt. 

They were purchasing. 

Ryan: Purchasing, spending more money. Cuz that's how you make a, an economy flourish. Spending more money. Spending more money. 

Hannah: I'm sure people say too, oh, you know, it was just to further the good of more education. No, it was to make money. It's always been to make money. 

Ryan: That decision it seems like.

And if you know what I'm [00:08:00] talking about and you know more than it, please go to YouTube and comment on this video and let me know what resources I should be looking at. Drop your email or something like that. I can shoot you an email. Email and we can talk about it. 

Yeah. In 1967, there was like a court case that was about discrimination.

Basically. I think it was about this black man who was getting discriminated on, or discriminated against for not having a college degree and everything like that. Anyway, I will do more research and that's what ended up happening. And they ended up saying that you cannot test people in order to prove their proficiency in tasks and therefore that case 

Hannah: Oh sure.

Ryan: Was the precedent of making college degrees 

Hannah: because it's kind of a test or it was a test, testable measurement. 

Ryan: Well, it wasn't a testable measurement, but it was a measurement. 

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: And so they've, instead of, they switched from doing individual task proficiency tasks to college degree requirements.

Anyway, I don't wanna give away, I mean, I kind of just gave it all away. 

Hannah: [00:09:00] No, there's a lot there, I'm sure. 

Ryan: But I'll do more research and come back with that. And I just, that's what I did last night. I started going down that rabbit hole and I haven't quite gotten to the end of it, but I will report back 

Hannah: Folks we're digging through, finding degree free news and different things like this. So if you have a tip or you have something that you think would be interesting to us, send it to us please because I have another thing about, Harvard just recently, and we'll talk about this in the next episode, but about Harvard only charging people who are over 100k and why that's a giant scam. But anyway, if you wanna hear more headlines like this, if you wanna know the degree free news, the happenings, if you wanna know what companies are down credentialing, if you wanna get hired without a college degree run, do not walk over to degreefree.co/newsletter and sign up to get more of what Ryan and I think is cool and interesting in that you need to know.

Ryan: Yep, absolutely. And also connect with us on Linked. The number one thing that we hear is, oh, I don't have a network. I don't know how to start one. Exactly. If you connect with us, we will definitely accept. Don't be weird , just connect and then add a note that says that you're listening to the podcast. 

[00:10:00] Yes,

Don't just connect. I mean, you can do that too. 

Hannah: Practice your cold outreach muscle and just say, hey, I listened to the podcast, you told me to connect, so here I am. 

Ryan: Yeah. And tell me which episode you liked, and tell me what you don't like about this podcast. 

Hannah: Yeah. And tell us something you want us to talk about on the podcast.

Okay. Next thing. This one's pretty freaking wild. Okay. I had to go digging on the internet for this one. This is, we're talking page eight of Google here. So this is one of the coolest charts I found. It's gonna be linked in the show notes, and I would highly recommend you look at this chart because when you look at it, In picture form, it's much more shocking, but I'm gonna try to shock you because I think it's pretty shocking.

All right. So how much do you think a UPS driver makes on average?

Ryan: 65

Hannah: is that your final answer? 

Ryan: Well, now that you've asked me like that, I'm guessing that I'm way wrong. 

Hannah: Well, we'll see, right. So try 145k on average. This is according to the UPS website

Ryan: are those current numbers?

Is that now? 

Hannah: Yes, 

that's now.

Ryan: Wow. 

I need to be a UPS driver. 

Hannah: I, dude, those guys, we see them in our neighborhood and Frick didn't realize, they're, they're doing really well and nice. That's awesome. Good for them. I know. Well, they hustle too, right? They work, they're hustlers. They work hard. 

Ryan: They're hustlers. There's, [00:11:00] I had a friend.

Sorry, this is totally off talk, right? No, go for it. But I had a friend that worked at UPS and he would always say that UPS stands for Underpaid Slaves. 

Hannah: That's the joke. I feel like I've talked about how much they make on TikTok before, and people were like, well, yeah, but you know, they're underpaid slave.

I'm like, I mean, that's pretty good wage. I mean, I don't know that's underpaid. I feel like that's pretty good. 

Ryan: Right? I guess he always complained about the uniform too, and I guess like that you have to wear like UPS socks and UPS underwear. Oh yeah. 

No, I mean, I'm just joking but 

Hannah: it's got, it's got little ups embroidered all over the boxer briefs.

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: Or I don't know. I don't know if, I don't know if UPS driver's issue Whitey tires or boxer briefs, but we'll have to ask. If anyone knows, let us know. Okay. So guess what now? All right, so we've guessed the average salary for UPS driver, and the answer is 145K. 

So, guess what the average doctor is making. 

Ryan: The average doctor is making.

Well, I don't know. Average. Yeah, average. You gotta think that. I know the median too, but you gotta think that there's a lot of private practice doctors [00:12:00] that are making a lot, but there are also a lot of clinic doctors that are making like, I don't know, 90?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hannah: Like 80 probably if they don't, if you don't negotiate well, so I don't know.

Ryan: I'm thinking it's gonna skew upwards because of the guys that are just balling outrageous. 

120 

Hannah: 120, all right. That's a pretty good guess, actually, that's not bad. So the average doctor makes 188 k per Glassdoor number. 

Ryan: Perfect.

Hannah: Another number that I saw, on a different website, and it was supposedly from the BLS data, was the median wage being 2 0 8.

All right. So $208,000 a year. Not terrible. That's pretty good. That's pretty good money, right? Okay. So this ER doctor wrote an article and did a mathematical breakdown of how long it would take him to catch up in net income earnings to a UPS driver who started driving right after high school.

Ryan: Before you get into that, may I ask you, at what age are they making $208,000 or what age are they making 180 8?

Does, does your math or does [00:13:00] the chart or whatever, say something about 

Hannah: that? It doesn't, because it just takes into account, the numbers I'm using for the average are average. All doctors across the employ, doctors across the us Now this includes surgeons, this includes residents. 

Ryan: Okay, perfect. 

Hannah: Yeah. So this er doctor though, so he, this is, we're now working with a one-on-one.

Okay. So this is one UPS driver up against this particular ER doctor and his income. He's now full ER doctor, so he's making, he's no longer a resident. He's been a doctor for a long time. I think he said like, uh, I think in the article he said like 20 years or something. Okay. So he is been there a lot.

He's been there a while. Point being So UPS driver that is working full time and an ER doctor. So a physician that is working full-time, how long do you think it took for the physician to catch up and net income earnings to the UPS driver? 

Ryan: Eight years.

Hannah: So eight years on medical school? Yes. So if they start working right after high school, we're doing math and public, sorry, folks.

So four years for the UPS driver. So that's undergrad and then there's medical school, right. How long is medical school? 

Ryan: Three years.

Hannah: And then whatever their residency is, if they do one and so that's another what? 

Ryan: They have two

Hannah: [00:14:00] three years. 

Ryan: Two.

Hannah: Two years. 

Ryan: And then their specialty. Okay. Oh, so now we're talking about what, like 11 years?

Hannah: Something like that. Okay, so 11 years. So now this person, let's just be optimistic, okay? Let's say optimistically, this person's now 29 years old, starting to work. The UPS driver started working at 18. The U, it takes a physician. It took this specific physician with his earnings 27 years to catch up with a UPS driver who started working right after high school.

That is insane and I know a lot of people's response to this is gonna be, oh, well, you know, we should pay our doctors more and I don't disagree with that statement. I don't disagree with that statement. However, The point here exists that even when you are a high income earner, there is no doubt that the professions that are high income earners, I'm using quotes, are all gonna be lawyers, doctors. 

Right, these are the ones.

Lawyers, doctors, CPAs, those are the ones that people use as an example of high income earners. They're the ones that skew any sort of graduate money that comes in when we use like master's degrees or graduate degrees, and we say they make a lot of money. It's the doctor's, lawyers, and [00:15:00] CPAs that are skewing that number. 

And so it's crazy that even for a physician who is a high income earner, if you just start working right after high school and you are able to stack and you're able to out. Honestly, if you look at, if you look at this chart, guys, please go to the website and look at this chart cuz it's unbelievable, but. If you look at somebody like this, and let's just assume that this UPS driver doesn't even start investing. Like just basic saving and investing. You know, probably in their company provided for I would imagine there is no way that this physician is ever gonna catch up to them in income unless they make a crazy investment, but probably not.

It's just wild. It's a wild chart to look at and it just really puts in perspective that like the cost of your education and it's really the opportunity cost, which is something you and I talk about, like the cost of college is one thing cuz the cost of tuition doubles every nine years. Obviously the value is not doubling every nine years and then the wages for college graduates have actually been going down now, and the wages for high school graduates are going up. What's crazy about this is that it's the time this doctor is going for 11 [00:16:00] years without really getting paid. They're paying and they're not getting paid. They're not getting paid probably till residency and their specialty.

Right. And even then they're getting paid what? Like they don't get paid a lot. Ridiculous. I've seen like $15 an hour or something like that. If that's wrong, then shoot us, shoot us a message but I've seen people say they get paid 15 bucks an hour in residency, so pretty crazy. The message here is choose your time carefully because you can't get those 11 years back and that doctor's now missed out on 11 years basically of good income.

And the UPS driver's been making it the whole time.

Ryan: Yeah, so I think the $15 an hour in residency, I think that's taken as an average. So I think you get paid 80 or something like that, and then you work 60 hours a week or whatever. And then if then it's $15 an hour, but they're actually making like, you know, 80 grand a year and they're not making 15 times 40.

Hannah: Right. The hourly is, yeah. Is low, but their wage is high

Ryan: or you know, 

Hannah: because of how much time they work.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So there's a couple of things there that I wanted to bring up. One thing that I wanted to kind of double click on, which was I was just talking to somebody, it wasn't really talking, it was YouTube. Once again, everybody go to [00:17:00] YouTube and comment, subscribe like, and one, they were saying that you could go and get a bachelor's degree for $5,000 and most people, quote unquote, that talk about people not getting degrees, talk about going to some fancy school and paying a lot of money. And I was just like, dude, you're way off.

No, there's, there are not very many programs, if any, where you can get a full four year degree for five grand. 

Hannah: No

Ryan: , it just doesn't exist. And I'm not sure that you would want that degree or I'm not sure how, what, what that degree is going to do for you. 

Hannah: And at that point you would just not even get it.

Ryan: Yeah, like, I'm not sure what validity that that degree will have and I'm not saying that you should spend a lot of money under your degree. I'm not saying that price is indicative of value, but if it's $5,000 in that, in order for them to stay in business, they have to push out a lot of volume. In order to make money 

Hannah: which devalues.

Ryan: Which devalues

Hannah: their product. 

Ryan: Exactly. And so, that's all I'm saying. But anyway, I was just telling him like, even if college was free, you still have to do the math [00:18:00] on the opportunity cost of the time and the experience and this goes back to another episode that we did before, which was the false dichotomy of college experience versus no college experience.

And I definitely suggest going back to listen to that episode and it's basically like that thought experiment that we've all heard, which is, oh, who would you rather have though? Ceteris Paribus everything else being equal. Would you rather have somebody that has all the same experience but has a college degree or somebody that doesn't have a college degree and I was just telling 'em like in the real world

Hannah: That's not how it works. 

Ryan: That doesn't exist because the person that doesn't have a college degree, they're gonna be working. 

Hannah: Yeah. They don't exist in a vacuum. They don't just wait and then they spontaneously go into society. At the same time as people who've gotten a four year degree, they're working the whole time.

Ryan: It's the decisions that you make that's gonna differentiate though, because just because you go to work doesn't mean that's gonna make you more valuable. Either you have to go to work in the industry that you want to work in 

Hannah: or transferrable one.

Ryan: Right, exactly. But like for example, four years, if you want to be like a developer or something like that, and you [00:19:00] wanna be a software engineer, and you four years spend that time doing that every day becoming a junior dev and then a senior dev within four years.

Okay? And then you want to become a CTO or something like that, you're on the path. But if you're, if you wanna be a software engineer and you're waiting tables for four years, That's 

Hannah: Not gonna help you as much. 

Ryan: Not gonna help you as much. 

Hannah: Yeah. It's four years of work experience. 

Ryan: Yes, it is four years of work experience, but it's not gonna help you as much.

Hannah: Sure. 

Ryan: And so you definitely have to prioritize where you put your efforts, but if you were to prioritize where you put your efforts, just like how that college person is prioritizing their efforts by getting a CS degree or whatever. Right. Or by in whatever degree, accounting degree, whatever they're trying to do.

Yeah, just like how they're prioritizing your efforts. If you prioritize your efforts as well, it's not gonna be the same at all. But yeah, another thing that I wanted to bring up was that the debt that these doctors go into, and a lot of it has to do with the things that you don't see, or that actually the things that you do see. 

There are a lot of people, because med school [00:20:00] is so grueling and because a lot of med schools don't allow you to even work or to have any type of income. You're basically living on borrow time, like literally borrow time. Your future earnings is what you 

Hannah: are sustaining you, 

Ryan: is what you are living on because it's called debt.

And a lot of people, a lot of doctors are well in their fifties that still have debt. It's crazy. We used to, when we lived in New York, we used to live with a doctor that

Hannah: Oh, yeah. 

Ryan: Had six figures worth of debt and she was in her sixties. 

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: And I was just like, 

Hannah: how?

Ryan: I had no idea. That's exactly what I ask.

Hannah: But you get like that. And the thing is too, they weren't, she and her husband, they weren't like low income earners either.

Ryan: Exactly. And I was like, what is going on? And then a lot of it has to do with doctors, really, a lot of them aren't really good with their money. This is getting away from whether or not you should it or not, but there's a lot of studies. They're not the greatest investors. They're not the greatest with money 

Hannah: Probably, cause it was so tough for them financially. All that time they were struggling and then they finally get some cash [00:21:00] and they're like, man, I wanna live a little bit.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: Hard to, hard to blame 'em for that too.

Ryan: Right. And then there's the keeping up with the Joneses too, whereas like, who would you rather, the same with the realtors, right? Like who would you rather buy a house from? Who would you rather have surgery from? The person that's rolling up in a Bentley, maybe not a Bentley, but the person that's rolling up in a Mercedes or a BMW.

Or the person that goes to work in a Ford F-150. 

Hannah: Yeah, yeah. That's true. That's true. There's definitely that.

How silly is that too? But I, I know what you're talking about. 

Ryan: Yeah. So the pull to spend more 

Hannah: is strong,

Ryan: be amongst your peers and look like you have a lot of money. Is a lot,

Hannah: is a lot more.

Ryan: And now moving on, I wanted to talk about something that I was surfing on Reddit as I do.

As you do. Yeah. And I was Deep, I don't even know how I found this, but I found this post and it was like three years ago that I kind of wanna read and we can talk about, because I think that a lot of people are struggling with the same thing. So I'll just read you the post real fast. The post says, I've been on the job search [00:22:00] market for two years.

I had by luck an amazing interview to one of the largest companies within my major field. I didn't get the job. Two weeks later, I ask why. This is what he said. I hope my mistake becomes your, and then it cuts up, becomes your learning lesson or whatever and this is the email that the guy sent and I'll link to this post and to this image of this email in our show notes, degreefree.co/podcast. But it says, hi Jason. You are extremely self-deprecating when I met with you post interviews, and the same goes for this email. You need to trust that if a recruiter reaches out to you and brings you into interview, that you have the skills to take on the position that is being offered.

You said in your meeting with me that you were not qualified for the opportunity in front of you. No one is going to hire someone that is down on themselves moving forward. I suggest going in with more confidence and an attitude that you deserve to be there. You have a great background in customer service from Starbucks and a good foundation of media skills to start in an [00:23:00] internship slash entry level position right now.

You are the person that's holding you back from these opportunities. I hope that's helpful and best of luck with your search, Chris.

Hannah: Whoa.

Ryan: So I think that. Is very useful to a lot of people. 

Hannah: Yeah. Somebody just asked me about that on the live last night about imposter syndrome and about like not feeling like you belong there.

Ryan: Exactly. That's one of the things that I personally have dealt with a lot and it's definitely gonna happen in jobs, but if for all those entrepreneurs listening as well, it'll happen to you in entrepreneurship as well too, where you kind of get in over your head or you're in this interview and you think that you don't belong there.

If you do everything that we've said, if you come and join us for our Career Change Crash Course, degreefree.co/careerchange, it's like a four week course where we teach you how to get a job effectively and how to apply and get interviews for jobs you're not qualified for. 

Hannah: Yeah. How to do what we've done.

Ryan: Yeah. [00:24:00] Or if you go back and listen to every single episode and you put in to practice everything that we've said, this is going to happen to you. 

Hannah: Yeah. You're gonna be in a seat that you don't feel like you deserve to sit in. 

Ryan: You're going to get interviews for jobs. Where you literally fit 20%, 50% of the job.

Hannah: 0%

Ryan: Yeah, Of the job description. Because you're applying to those jobs and then they're reaching back out to you. Because as a secret, companies don't actually hire people that match their job descriptions. They want to make you believe that they do, but the reality of it, They don't hire the people that match their job descriptions, so you should apply anyway.

And if you are applying fearlessly, if you are applying because it doesn't matter, then you are going to get these interviews and you are going to be just like Jason here and you're gonna be terrified and you need to go into those interviews with confidence. 

Hannah: That is a great lesson. I think too, another thing that someone commented to, there was somebody who works in HR and hiring that was on the live also and they said If you are [00:25:00] meeting a hundred percent of the qualifications for a job, you're applying to, you are overqualified.

And I thought that was actually a really good framing. That was a wonderful, wonderful explanation that they made. And I was like, wow, that's great. I'm gonna make sure that other people hear that cuz that if you, I'm gonna say this again. If you are meeting a hundred of the qualifications for a job you are applying to, you are overqualified.

The only reliable thing in company's job descriptions are the tools they need you to know how to use. That's it, everything else. Degree requirements. Experience requirements. Ignore it. Apply anyway. Apply fearlessly to any job that you want or think you could do, or think you could learn or that you just want, that's it.

Ryan: Yeah, that's it. What I also think that this recruiter did well. Yeah. The fact that they even got back to Jason was awesome, but the part that I wanna hone in on is you have a great background in customer service from Starbucks and a good foundation of media skills to start in an internship slash entry-level position.

So basically just talking about how their seemingly non-relevant [00:26:00] skills are relevant to that industry. What we were talking about earlier. If you want to be a software engineer, maybe waiting tables isn't the best thing to do, but it doesn't mean that you're not gonna learn transferrable skills to that industry, right?

Transferrable skills. And you might be asking, okay, what are some of those transferrable skills, conflict resolution, communication, accuracy, the those types of things are you're gonna learn from serving tables. Working at Starbucks and you, it's your job going into the job interview and putting it on your resume and putting it in your portfolio to connect the dots for that hiring manager, for that recruiter to say, yes, I am currently a Starbucks employee. I'm a barista, but here is how my background connects to this job, and here's how I can bring my background and provide value to this role that you're hiring for. 

Hannah: I couldn't have said it better myself.

So that is the lesson. [00:27:00] That's the takeaway. Apply fearlessly, apply anyway and embrace that feeling of discomfort, cuz you should always be reaching up when you're applying for a job. 

Ryan: And what's really helped for me, it sounds really woo woo. 

Hannah: Perfect. We love that. 

Ryan: Right, exactly. But just positive affirmations really, really help.

Hannah: Yeah. We were talking about that live last night. Just It's okay, I can do this. 

Ryan: Or if you want to, I deserve to be here. I've worked hard. I deserve to be here. I know what to do. I know what to say. Very honestly, I still do this to this day. I'm not quote unquote, qualified to be speaking and have access to the people that I have access to.

We've had meetings. People that we never thought that we would ever have meetings with in our lives. Shocking. And they're asking us our advice. Yeah. Shocking. I'm not qualified to be in those meetings, but it doesn't matter. You just have to be confident. 

Hannah: Pretend like you're used to sitting at the table, even if you've never sat at the table before,

Ryan: Just pretend like you've been there before. 

Hannah: That's the secret. That's the secret and eventually, after you've done it, You'll be comfortable again. 

Ryan: [00:28:00] Exactly. And then hopefully if you're growing, 

Hannah: you can find some more discomfort somewhere. 

Ryan: Exactly. Yeah. And that's the episode. 

Comment on YouTube if you know anything about that court case, like I talked about, connect with us on LinkedIn.

You can find our LinkedIns in the show notes and the video description here. I'm Ryan Maruyama, she's Hannah Maruyama on LinkedIn. You can search us. We pop right up. We're the first ones. 

Hannah: And if you want Ryan and my help transitioning into a new job making a career pivot or just learning a new skill so that you can look for jobs that you may want. Check out our four week Career Change Crash Course. It's degreefree.co/careerchange. It'll have all the information about everything we're doing in the course. Very cool. We're doing live events. There's a video course with everything that you need for interviewing, applying, negotiating resume templates, just so much stuff that we made for you.

So check that out.

Ryan: Yeah. Awesome. Until next time guys. Aloha.