How to Talk to a Teenager About Going Degree Free - Ep. 35

Ryan: Aloha guys. And welcome back to the degree free. We are your hosts, Ryan, and Hannah Maruyama. On this podcast, we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating getting work, building businesses and making money. We'll tell you how to make it happen. No degree needed.

Hannah: Welcome back. Welcome back to the podcast. Now, if you want to get the latest in degree free news, like companies that are no longer requiring college degrees, tides that are turning different ideas for degree free work and resources that can help you get the skills you need to get a job without a college degree, you are going to want to grab the newsletter that Ryan and I put out once a week, you can sign up for our email list @degreefree.co. Don't wait.

Ryan: Yep. And if you haven't already liking subscribe, we posted a new episode every week and we'd love to have you as a regular listener without further ado. Let's get into today's episode. Today, we are going to be talking about how to talk to a teenager about going degree free.

Hannah: Yeah, this is a, this is my sweet spot. I love this.

Ryan: This is something that I love as well. This is something that we have personal experience.

Hannah: It's so easy to blow their minds.

Ryan: Yeah, and not only that, like not only with our own family, but we talked to a lot of teenagers because our, our hope is that we can catch people before they make the decision to spend $30,000 a year to go to college.

Hannah: Yeah. And that the, before they do it is definitely the time to give them more options.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: And basically it's what continues to be shocking is the amount of them that have not been told that they do not have to go to college immediately.

This it's just the craziest thing. I'll never get over how crazy it is.

Ryan: Yeah. So today we wanted to kind of talk about how to do it and how we've done it in the past and how we continue to do it to this day. Cause we have a lot of people that want us to talk to, you know, their family and friends, kids, things like that.

So the first thing that we normally say or ask them is, have you ever been told that you don't have to go to college in order to get a good job?

Hannah: You would be shocked by how many of these kids have never heard that in their entire born lives.

Ryan: It's something that they get really indoctrinated in because public schools to do it, private schools who do it,

Hannah: Their parents do it.

Ryan: Their parents do it, their uncles do it, their aunties do it.

Hannah: Their older siblings do it.

Ryan: Yeah. Everybody and almost every,

Hannah: celebrities, politicians.

Ryan: If not every teenager that we've talked to nobody's, you know, most of the time there they say no, I've never been asked that that's not something that's been presented to me ever.

Hannah: Yeah. They're like, yeah. It's it's crazy. Cause it they kind of looked like a, like it's the first time you can tell this is the first time this thoughts ever occurring to them.

And they see like, they're like, oh. Wow. It's just never occurred to them. And they don't know what there is outside of that one singular path. They have the, because they've never been told there's any other options, which is crazy because two thirds of the population in the United States doesn't have college degrees.

So the reality is that most people don't have them.

Right.

Ryan: Most people don't have degrees, but somehow you need to get a degree in order to get a good job.

Hannah: Or in order to get any jobs.

Ryan: Get any job. That's true.

Hannah: Some of them think that you, like, you have to get a college degree in order to do anything besides bad groceries. I'm like, where did they get this notion from?

Like, I don't know. I mean, they got it from school obviously.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: Cause that's that's who talks to them most of the time, but it's crazy because it's like, yeah. Aside from working at McDonald's or bagging groceries, if you want to get any job at all, you need a college degree and it's like, no, that that's patently false.

Ryan: Right. And you know, I think that's the first step that we try to talk with these kids, teenagers, children, whatever. I'm about is saying there are other ways other than getting a college degree to get a good paying job. A job that fulfills you or any job at all. Right. And that's the first step is just education.

There's a lot of them haven't even heard that,

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Ever.

Hannah: You're in a little box and you've got to open the top and go, Hey, there's more out here.

Ryan: And the next thing that, you know, you're gonna want to ask them is like, what do you want to do? Like, what are your current aspirations as far as what you want to do vocationally for job?

Hannah: I think a better question might just be, what do you like?

Ryan: Yeah, but no.

Hannah: Cause in that age they can always know their, their kids.

Ryan: No, but what I mean is, I mean, asking them. What do you want to do? And the reason why I'm asking you that is I think is it gives us an idea of where their head is at. Right. And if right off the bat, if, if they say, oh, I want to be a teacher. This is going to make people angry.

Hannah: Oh yeah.

Ryan: If I want to be a teacher, it'd be like, okay, well, you don't have to go to college to be a teacher.

Oh, here we go,

Hannah: Guys. I have not. I have not, if you listening ,

Ryan: I am @ryankmaruyama on the socials. She's @hannahmaruyama on the socials..

Hannah: There is

Ryan: That's where the angry tweets thing,

Hannah: Folks,

Ryan: instagram that's where they go.

Hannah: Folks. I'm the fight. I'm I'm, I'm, I'm the arguer of the group for sure of the team. But if you follow me on Tik TOK it's funny. Cause I thought some of the people on tiktok could be a little bit nuts, but that was before I got on Twitter, I was not on Twitter until recently. And holy cow, those people are just, It's unbelievable. The religious devotion to college degrees, but people lost their minds. When I said that you do not need a college degree to be a teacher in the United States. And then, and they just, just insistent and I'm like, there are three fourth thousand private schools in the United States. Not only that there are cooperatives, there are pods cools.

There are alternative forms of different types of schools that don't even look like an actual private school. And then there are professional tutors that teach students full-time that oftentimes get paid a lot more and have much better student outcomes than teachers. By what metric are those people not teacher? They are, but people lost their minds about that.

Ryan: So what I'm doing by asking, so let's say teacher, a lot of people think that you need to have a degree to become a teacher, but exactly about that big round that you just went on. There, there are other alternatives to just teaching in the public school system.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Where in the public school system widely, you do need a college degree.

Hannah: You do, it's slowly being rolled back with kind of what they're doing is there are states with extreme teacher shortages like Utah, where you only need experience. And then one to three years of college classes, which is really specific, right? So that's not a degree. That's just once right. But there's other places like Arizona, I'm sorry, Oklahoma and California are both having trouble right now.

So they're issuing like emergency teaching licenses because they do not have enough teachers.

Ryan: Right.

Hannah: So a lot of places too. They're full-time subs that don't have college degrees and sometimes subs will teach classes for literally years.

Ryan: A lot of subs don't have.

Hannah: They're not required to.

Ryan: Yeah a lot of stuff don't.

Hannah: And like sometimes the subs teach for years,

Ryan: Yes, I, I,

Hannah: Sometimes a sub will teach a class for an entire year,

Ryan: I had a substitute that Tommy, Yes..

Hannah: Yeah. And not only that, but like there are other states too that like, because they're facing such an extreme shortage largely in part, I think because the cost of college is so high and the job itself is so emotionally. Just taxing that they can't keep teachers. And so in order to combat that shocking unshockingly to me, but shockingly to everybody else, I guess is they're starting to roll back degree requirements because they just need, they need bodies.

Ryan: Okay, sorry. We're not talking about that.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Let's get, let's get back on track.

Hannah: Sorry.

Ryan: So what I mean, that's great. That's great to know, but what I mean by. Is what we're trying to do here. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to open up their creative mind and try to educate them that there are different and alternative paths to a very similar future of which you think that you want.

That being said, teenagers. I don't know about those people listening, but I know for me, I did not know what I wanted to be when I was a teenager. You know, and whatever I did, whatever I thought that I wanted to , I definitely didn't accomplish doing that. I ended up doing something way different with my life and with my career, right?

Hannah: But the kind of like pigeonhole you at the beginning, right?

When you're in school, they just teach you what, what veterinarian doctor, nurse, teacher, firefighter, police officer. That's pretty much it.

Ryan: Right. So that's exactly what I was getting. That's exactly what I was going, which is. The creativity aspect of it. Right. So that's why, that's why I asked what would you like to do, right.

Instead of what do you like? And then with the goal of opening up their creativity to that, right. Okay. If you want us to be a lawyer, but another popular one, right? You can be a lawyer in some states without having a college degree. We'll get into that a later date. Right. But it's just getting the juices flowing thinking outside of the box, the paths that we're talking about of possibly.

Going into these careers are not necessarily easier.

Hannah: They often require more work, but it depends on if you view work as, I mean, a college degree is work that you're paying to do so.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: So a lot of times your financial situation will go the opposite way. You'll get paid to learn, you know, the future.

Hannah: Yeah. Almost always. If you just get a job, you're, you're going in the right direction.

Ryan: Yeah,

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Exactly. And so to hit on your point, we're just trying to open up their minds because of what a lot of kids, teenagers, you know, when we talk to them, it's always the same career as exactly what you said.

Firefighter, police, doctor, vet, whatever, whatever, whatever, like there's like 10 careers. And a lot of that is just because that's all they see. That's all we see as adults.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Right.

Hannah: That's true.

Ryan: You and I both know that there's an infinite amount of jobs. It's literally infinite.

Hannah: There's all kinds of work.

Ryan: Yeah. So. What we're trying to do with the conversation is we're trying to expand their vocational creativity,

Hannah: Open their options back up, instead of closing them down to like six.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: And that's where your next question, your first question, my second question comes into play, which is yeah. What, what do you already do or what do you like to do?

Hannah: And I find that's a good one because you can ascertain whether or not like, and if you know the child like child, if you know the teenager slash child, well, you can just say, Hey, I noticed that you spent a lot of time doing this. Why do you do that? Do you like that? And you know, be that they're outside, like, or they've taken apart remote controls and they continually take apart electronic things.

Like that's a sign that this person has a mechanical curiosity and that's not something to be wasted. In that if they like to do that and they tend towards those things, they should be pushed in that direction because that's, that's what they prefer to do.

Ryan: Or at least that's an option.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: To, to help figure out,

Hannah: Yeah. And just say, Hey, like I noticed that instead of sending you don't spend a lot of your free time, like trying to explain concepts to other kids. I do notice that you spend a lot of time taking apart and putting back together these things, you know, why do you do that? Do you like doing that? You know,

Ryan: And that's lots of say, they are going to always loved the job that they have. And it's not to say that they need to love the thing that they do either.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: It's just a good way, especially if there's a disconnect between what they say and what they do.

Hannah: Yeah,

Ryan: Right. So if so I'm a good example, right? If, as a teenager, I did everything.

Like I had a lot of interests, but I did all of my own like manual labor things. I'd love to change the oil in my car. I love to fix things. I love to learn about construction. I love to build things. But if you asked me what I wanted to do, I would always say, you know, I want it to be a psychiatrist or a veterinarian or some sort of doctor or something like that.

Hannah: It'd be a horrible doctor.

Ryan: I would be a terrible doctor.

Hannah: Ryan's not good with it. Wouldn't be good to patient care.

Ryan: I, it has a lot to do with the fact that like, I don't care.

Hannah: Well, you can just say it out loud, like that that's design that you probably shouldn't go, or maybe you should, because you're more objective. I don't know.

I feel like no, though, I would not want a physician. That's like, I don't care. I'm sorry. Not you, but

Ryan: And so, but what I did do is I, I always had a camera in my hands. I always had disposable cameras. I spent so much money away, my parents money, and then a lot of my Christmas money, which is also my parents' money and stuff like that.

So I spent a lot of my parents' money on, like disposable cameras and getting this thing developed, you know, the pictures developed. And so those were two huge, like hints in my life. I felt like that somebody had, they had this conversation with me. They could have. Honed in on, right. Because I'm over here aiming at being a doctor and going to college and, or, or working in finance or something like that, dealing with numbers,

Hannah: But you've never once brought in a bird and like fed it with an eyedropper.

Ryan: Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: And so.

It's like, all right. Maybe if you look at what I do, instead of what I'm saying, you can kind of coach me and help me down a path of, you know, what maybe you would like to be a mechanic and said, maybe you'd like to be a carpenter

Hannah: Or a better question would be, do you know what a mechanic does?

Ryan: Right. Or, or even a more like creative field?

What I mean by that is something that's not as. Connected w since I was always behind the camera, you'd be like, have you ever thought about being a photographer? Have you ever thought about being a videographer?

Hannah: Or kids that like video games is a good example, too. Like, Hey, have you ever thought about you know, working at a video game company and designing games like this?

You know, do you have any ideas for video games, kids like, oh, I want to be a, you know, I want to be a. Work in early childhood education, but they're on a game, you know, 24/7. It'd be like, Hey, come seems like you really like that. Why do you like that? What interest you?

Ryan: And a good example of this, I feel like is if you ask a lot of what I've noticed when asking this question to a lot younger kids, especially one of the new careers that has popped up recently, . I'll ask him, oh, what do you want to be when you grow up? And though, and they'll say like, oh, I want to be a YouTube star.

Hannah: Yeah. They want to be Mr. Beast.

Ryan: And I'm just like, whoa, that's crazy.

Hannah: That is interesting.

Ryan: But it's because that's, what's in front of them.

Hannah: Right. It's what they see.

Ryan: Right, yeah. That's what they see.

Hannah: And they live on the internet, so they see it.

Ryan: Exactly right. It's not hard. You see a firetruck going by. I want to be a fireman. You see a police car go by, I wanna be policeman.

Hannah: So this we'll see that increasingly as the world grows more digital, like you know, you'll see kids that are, that are like, oh, you know, I want to be a, I want to be a metaverse casino card dealer.

They're going to want to, oh man, I want to build skyscrapers. I want to build skyscrapers on the internet. Like, they're going to say weird stuff that they see on YouTube, you know?

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: Interesting.

Ryan: And you know, that's going to be a job.

Hannah: Yeah, for real.

Ryan: Definitely.

Yeah.

Hannah: Definitely.

Ryan: So the first part, the first part of the conversation is usually just trying to expand.

They're vocational creativity. I'll call it. And then also to see and locate, if there are any disconnects between, what it is they're saying and what they actually do.

Hannah: The main reason is because, because kids are taught such a limited menu of career options too. And then the pressure to choose one as they get older gets increasingly more, but they're still basically offered the same few jobs.

If so, if they get lucky, someone gives them a career aptitude test when they're about to graduate. But usually those tests contain about the same, same amount of things. But the kids can't be curious about doors. They don't know exist. And so as an adult who is like, who's around kids, it's your job to tell them that doors exist, because then they can say, oh, well what what's behind that door?

You say, oh, this, you can open it if you want. That's like, that's your job as an adult to, to say, oh yeah. Like, well, what about this? Did you know, did you know this was an option? And then just leave him alone. Most of the time.

Ryan: Yeah. You don't know what you don't know.

Hannah: Yeah. A good way to do that too. If kids are younger is just to say like, if they, if they say, oh, that's cool and they're there observing somebody doing some sort of work that they think is interesting.

Just tell them how that, how they could go about getting that job. So that's just in their head. Cause they'll do orbit. Kids will be like, oh, you know, they see some guy riding up. Like they see some guy riding a bull at a rodeo like, oh, that's so cool. Well, yeah, if you want to do that for work, this is how you do it, you know? That's a job.

People do that, you know? Cause there's kids, kids can be whatever.

Ryan: Yeah. I think the next thing is going to be definitely a little bit more of a difficult. Concept to get across because the next couple of things that we're gonna be talking about is we're going to be talking about money, because one of the things that we found with college and education quote unquote, about the decision to go to college is lacking in this department.

Hannah: Yeah. For sure.

Ryan: But, you yeah, you know , we kind of have to educate them on the cost of college. And a lot of them don't even know.

Hannah: Yeah. And they can't because no one taught them any sort of financial literacy, cause they're going to school so.

Ryan: Yeah. And you know that all they know is that, okay, I want to go to this school. This is how much it costs.

I've no idea. It doesn't matter. Number those big numbers mean nothing to them because they've never worked

Hannah: They're children. They don't have that money.

Ryan: Exactly. Most of them haven't worked and they also don't have the money.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Right. And so, you know, they're like, oh, well you can go, you can stay in town. You can go to the community college. Community college for, you know, $5,000 a year, or you can go to this name, band school for $50,000 a year.

I feel

Hannah: like that's a biggest argument for telling a T for like, if you're, if you're, if you're a parent and your kid wants to go to college and you don't necessarily think that they should, because they don't know what they want to do or, or what have you.

Say, okay. You got to get a job and you get to work without taking out loans. Well that, well that child's still a minor, you know, and say like, you're not, I'm not going to, co-sign a loan with you. You have to work. I guess how much that college costs a year, $30,000. Now you have to go and make $30,000 to pay for it.

And you'll find that they reconsider their decision very quickly. If they start to work a job.

Ryan: Yeah, so what I was saying was that five and five $50,000, 5,000 and $50,000. There's no point of reference that. It means nothing to them.

Hannah: It can be the same.

Ryan: It's a lot of money either way. And okay, so. What do we know? Well, the average statistics of how long it takes somebody to go to college from beginning to end

Hannah: 5.5 years for most students in the US

Ryan: Okay.

Hannah: It's a very long time.

Ryan: Right? Okay. And they're going to go to school and they're got to pay.

Let's call it $10,000.

Hannah: Also people just so you know, estimates on colleges are given in four year increments. When in fact it takes 1.5 years longer for most people.

Ryan: Yeah. But let's call it, you know, let's call it $10,000 a year. Right. Which is way,

Hannah: That's cute ,

Ryan: Right, way less.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: So now if you take the average time that it takes to complete college, 5.5, and if you take a really, really, really. You know, under estimate of how much college costs

Hannah: Yeah

Ryan: At $10,000 can be just like 30, but okay, now it's $10 in 5.5 years. Now you're spending $55,000 a year. I mean, for four

Hannah: Five thousands,

Ryan: $55,000 total.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: For your entire, that's a lot of money

Hannah: Yes.

Ryan: And that's also a lot of time

Hannah: Yes.

Ryan: And that is something that we try to do. Hannah and I thought when we talk to people is just reframe it as a financial decision because when you look at it as a financial decision, it doesn't

Hannah: changes.

Ryan: Yeah. It, it doesn't. Hold the same argument as it did when you weren't looking financial decision,

Hannah: Especially if, because I would say the most frequent, the most frequent things that people say too.

I think when you ask teenagers what do you want to, what do you want to do either? They say, oh, I don't know. Or they say teacher, those are that's. My that's been my experience or early childhood education. And for the, I don't know, ones saying. I don't know, and that's worth $55,000 conservatively, very conservatively.

That is a very different math problem now, like $55,000 on it on a chance, you know? So it's just a good way to frame it up to them too. And the other thing you can ask once you've calculated that number, just roughly, as you're saying, if you have $55,000 right now, what would you do with it? Right. And just say, you know, you could buy, you could buy a boat, you know, you could buy, you can put a down payment on a house if you wanted to, to move out of your parents' house. You know, if, if they're like, if they're into farming, you know, you can buy animals with that much money. You can, you can do quite a bit with that much money. And so just putting it in perspective for them of like, these are the things that you could do with that money instead of paying for school.

Ryan: Yup, and

Hannah: And you can do those things now instead of five and a half years from now.

Ryan: Right. And like I was saying, this whole thing is just in the spirit of educating them, that it is a financial decision where as the complete indoctrination that they've been receiving. So thus far hasn't been about the finances.

Hannah: It's purely emotional.

Ryan: And when you look at it with the financial aspect in there, like we talked about before it changes, I think the next thing is going to be asking them. Like, how much would you, how much do you want to make?

Hannah: Yeah. How much do you want to make a year? And a lot of times too, they they, they're not really gonna have an answer because if they're an American school child, they have an end.

Even if they've already signed college loans to go to school, they have no idea how much their major is going to make them when they graduate. They don't have the slightest clue,

Ryan: But it's not only that though. It's like they have most teenagers just don't have a good reference of money.

Hannah: Right. So they don't even know how much they would need to live.

Ryan: Right. So, yeah, I'm the teenager. And you just ask me how much money I'm thinking about making art like to earn. I said a hundred thousand dollars.

Hannah: Okay. And let's say you told me you wanted to be a teacher.

Ryan: Sure.

Hannah: Okay. So teachers typically make between, I mean, it could be 30 to $50,000 in most states. So you're, you're about to tell this, this kid, I mean, that's half of what you think you'd like to make a hundred thousand dollars is a decent amount of money.

It's it's well above the national average, because your average college graduates making 48K pre-tax. And so what you want to do is say, okay, well, in order to make 50, you know, in order to make a a hundred thousand dollars a year you need to do something other than teaching because you'll never get close to that number.

If you are a public school teacher, And you would just say, you know, here are some other options, like I noticed you, like, I noticed you like doing this, so here's something you could do in this. I noticed that you, you cook quite a lot. Did you know that executive chefs can make a hundred thousand dollars a year?

That's a good example of, of something that you could tell a kid, you know, especially if that child spends a lot of time cooking, that's a great example, but just saying those jobs would make you a hundred thousand dollars a year, but a teacher is going to make you half of what you think you'd like to make

Ryan: Right.

Hannah: Just to put it in perspective for them, because it's likely that no one ever has.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: It's very likely that no one has ever told them how much a teacher makes.

Ryan: I think that is one of the things that is just kind of what, like what I've termed vocational creativity, right? Like just kind of the number doesn't really matter that you can say a million,

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: They say a million and honestly the higher, the higher they go, the more you're going to be leaning towards not getting a college degree.

Hannah: Right, because you can say, well, you need to either start a, you need to start a business. You need to, you need to do you need to look into other forms of work that are more profitable

Ryan: Right

Hannah: than those set careers.

Ryan: Yeah. And unless, you know, there's this, you know,

Hannah: It's trying to be a doctor.

Ryan: Right. Or you're trying to be one of those very few, 1% of careers, less than 1% of careers that need absolutely need a college degree.

All encompassed in that too. What we try to stress is the time, the time that college actually takes, right. And the opportunity cost of going to college. So you're gonna go at 18 years old. You're going to be in there for 5.5 years, and now you're gonna be 23.5 years old. And more than likely you didn't get a job, right because most full-time college students don't get jobs.

Hannah: Yes.

Ryan: Right. And so now you're going to be, now you're going to be $55,000 in debt. If you went to very, very, very, very cheap route,

Hannah: You went to a community college

Ryan: More than likely you're going to be more than six figures in debt. Right. And that's just, that's just with the college tuition, nevermind the supplemental student loans that you got.

Hannah: Took out. So you could live above your means

Ryan: In order to live.

Hannah: And you're used to all, you're also used to it. This is a little bit of a side, but you also get used to this lifestyle and you're in college. I've seen this up close quite a bit. You still lifestyle in college that you have not yet earned.

And then it is a hard adjustment to reality when you have to come down and live within your means of your now tiny salary for your actual job.

Ryan: Well what happened so this is a little bit of a, well, what happens a lot of the times is that the, these college students is that they'll take out the money just to go that in one hand out the other and that's for tuition, but then, and then that is a federal student loans, but then they'll go to other private institutions and then they'll get private student loans.

Right. Which usually have a higher interest rate. And, but also on top of it, it's another loan payment that you have to service monthly. So assuming that you got a student loan, you know, once a year now you've got five different loans, unless you refinance, right. You have five separate private student loans.

Hannah: And often a decent amount of credit card debt too. Don't forget that.

Ryan: Unless you refinance, you went from nev never paying for anything because your student loans paid for it to now you're servicing thousands of dollars a month

Hannah: And you have to pay rent

Ryan: And you have a mortgage payment of student loans to service.

Hannah: And then you will also now take on rent and food.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: And insurance and your car and your gas and your phone

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: And your internet.

Ryan: And so that's where. That's where the reality really hits. And the reason why we know this is because we're in this industry and we talked to a lot of people about this.

Hannah: Yeah. And I, we I have seen this up close and personal and like friends, family, it's it and just acquaintances too. It's like, it's wild. How the rubber meets the road immediately after graduation

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: And no wonder so many college students get so down afterwards. Cause I was like, I've meant to burden. For somebody who's that young and hasn't done anything yet.

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: Like that'd be lived yet, you know?

Ryan: And they're in a massive hole.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: That honestly, they didn't think that they were in.

Hannah: Yep. And a lot of them feel like they're suffocating and a lot of it's just because they didn't realize that they were, they've never, they've never, they never had money and then they didn't have money, but they, they didn't really have the money. And then they spent all the money and now they're got to pay back all the money.

Ryan: Right. And also to bring it back to what we're talking about. That's a really tough order to. Now we have to explain how that's gonna feel to a teenager.

Hannah: Right?

Ryan: Right.

Hannah: No concept,

Ryan: Has no concept of time. He thinks they're in here. She thinks they're invincible and they're always right.

Hannah: Well, they also paint colleges like, oh, you know, like you'll be young when you get out. I mean kind of, kind of, but that's like, that's your mid twenties. You're in your mid twenties now, like you, you go in as a child and you come out in your mid twenties, that is a large amount of time. There's a lot you can do in five and a half years.

Ryan: Yeah. So that's exactly the point. I think that that's the easiest direction that we've went, which is talking through all the things that you can do in four to 5.5 years,

Hannah: Yeah, which is quite a lot.

Ryan: Right. You can talk about you know, life goals that you have, you know, if you want to travel, right. And you might be able to travel more if you don't go to college because the alternative is getting a job. Now you got a job and now you can travel more because you have vacation and you can pay for it. Right.

Hannah: Travel's a good one. Like if it's too, even just wanting to live in a specific city, right? Like if you just want to live a specific place, that's a good, that's a good point too. Or there's like you like to own a horse or I don't know, something random, something is something there's just hyper specific to the individual.

And just say, like, if you know, you're giving up, you may be giving up these things, if you do this and it just, just being realistic about the actual cost of it and what it's going to cost them and time and money, which is hard to explain to a teenager who does not understand either money or time.

Ryan: Yeah,

Hannah: You need to try.

Ryan: Yeah. I mean, that's why we're having this conversation with them. Right. Atleat give it the old college try.

Hannah: That was good. Well, I think we got to in this episode,

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: That was, that was really bad,

Ryan: But yeah, I think these are the conversations that you and I really love because,

Hannah: It's cool.

Ryan: This is how we started, and this is who we want to talk to you, because if we can talk to you and at least provide value, cause I'm not trying to convince you either way.

I'm just.

Hannah: I just tell you there's other stuff.

Ryan: I'm trying to tell you that there's other opportunities only, you don't have to go to college.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: Like, ah, there's nothing, there's nothing written in stone that you have to go to college.

Hannah: You don't, you can go work on one of those big cargo boats and go all over the world. You can do whatever you want.

Ryan: And do whatever you can do whatever you want. And that's, that's something that we love to tell young people that haven't made the decision that is going to put them into crippling financial debt.

Hannah: Yeah, before, before they even understand what that is.

Ryan: Right. Exactly.

Hannah: Yeah.

Ryan: But yeah, I think that's pretty much it today.

Hannah: Yeah, I think I think that we're good at. Like I said, if you want to get more degree free news and see, see, and hear more resources, like we've talked about, get inspiration for other degree free jobs and careers then go to the website which is degreefreenetwork.com and sign up for that newsletter because it's all in there.

Ryan: Yeah. And if you guys like this episode, if you guys found it useful, if you guys could give us a thumbs up, subscribe. Wherever it is that you get your podcasts. If you watch us on YouTube or whatever if you guys want to get into contact with us [email protected] that's our email. We love to get emails. We love to get emails. We'd love to hear from you guys asking questions or just drop us a line in general. I'm trying to be better on social media. You give us a follow on that @ryankmaruyama on all the socials. She's @hannahmaruyama as well and the podcast is @degreefreepod. All the links in show notes will be @degreefree.co and I think that that is it everybody. Now go and convince a teenager that they don't have to go to college. All right, until next time guys, Aloha.