June 19, 2024

How to Help Your Young Adult Explore Career Options That Fit Their Goals (DF#154)

How to Help Your Young Adult Explore Career Options That Fit Their Goals

How to Help Your Young Adult Figure Out Their Life Goals and Career Plans

Join us for a thought-provoking episode where we explore the pressure parents often feel to push their children into traditional paths.

We share a moving example of a mother unsure of how to guide her son's post-high school journey.

What You’ll Learn:

- The negative impacts of blindly suggesting traditional paths like college or the military without considering individual goals and interests
- The importance of asking open-ended questions and having conversations with young adults about their aspirations before providing advice
- The significance of involving parents in the career planning process for young adults and facilitating important discussions
- Disagreements and commitments in writing and launching a book, emphasizing shared goals and decision-making in business

Join us next week as we continue to explore alternative paths to success and empower young adults to make informed decisions about their futures.

Enjoy the episode!

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Discover how to help your young adult build wealth and avoid college debt through high-demand artisan careers—tune in to our previous episode!

Links and Notes from the Episode

Episode Summary:
In this episode, the conversation focuses on parents pressuring their children to choose traditional paths post-high school. The son is exploring various options, including working and careers in finance or nursing, despite his parents' concerns. It emphasizes the necessity of careful consideration of all options and avoiding blindly pursuing a degree or assuming the military is the only option.

The discussion stresses the importance of open discussions between parents and young adults about future goals and aspirations. Emphasizing the need for parents to ask open-ended questions, the conversation highlights starting with "why" before moving on to "how" in planning for the future. The launch program and a book providing worksheets for effective conversations between parents and young adults are also mentioned. The passage emphasizes strategic communication in guiding young adults toward their career paths, allowing them to make their own choices while providing support.

It touches on the process of writing and launching a book on career guidance, including differing views on launch timelines. The importance of marketing for a larger audience and reaching graduating seniors to avoid student debt is highlighted, along with the book and launch program for young adults.

Connect with Ryan:

Connect With Hannah:

Action Steps & Recommendations:

  • Encourage open discussions with young adults about their future goals and aspirations
  • Ask open-ended questions to help young adults figure out their life goals
  • Start conversations with the 'why' before moving on to the 'how' in planning for the future
  • Utilize resources like the launch program and book with worksheets for effective conversations
  • Provide options and support while allowing young adults to make their own choices
  • Prioritize effective communication and resolution of disagreements in guiding young adults
  • Focus on marketing strategies to reach a larger audience when launching career guidance resources


  • 00:00:44 - Parents pushing structured paths for young adults
  • 00:05:18 - The pressure to go to college or join the military
  • 00:06:55 - Importance of caution in considering military service
  • 00:11:04 - The importance of getting out of the house and having open-ended conversations with young adults
  • 00:13:13 - Ask open-ended questions to young adults about their future goals and aspirations
  • 00:18:07 - Involving parents in the career planning process for young adults leads to better outcomes
  • 00:20:17 - Strategic approach to guiding young adults
  • 00:21:03 - Influencing young adults with suggestions rather than direct commands
  • 00:25:35 - Disagreement over book launch timing and resolution
  • 00:30:40 - Importance of marketing in different industries
  • 00:31:39 - Motivation behind launching the book
  • 00:37:33 - Disagreeing and committing in business

References, Resources Mentioned & Suggested Reading:

Episode Transcript
Please enjoy this transcript or our episode!

Please note the transcript may have a few errors. We're human. It can be hard to catch all the errors from a full length conversation. Enjoy!

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:00]:
Blindly suggesting things is bound to irritate anybody. Why don't you lose some weight? If losing the weight is what do you think they should do? Like, why don't you lift weights? Or why don't you walk for 30 minutes a day? Or why don't you go run a marathon? You don't even know my goals. I don't understand. You're just shouting things at me.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:15]:

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:15]:
And like that's not gonna be well received at all. I wouldn't receive that well at all. Aloha folks and welcome back to Degree Free. It is great to have you back. There is a bunch of stuff that we wanna talk about this week. We're doing a little bit of pre planning and it seems like these points are going to be pretty long. So we're gonna jump right into it because hopefully we can get to everything that we want to get to this week. I think you wanted to start off this week.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:44]:
Yes. I have a Reddit question that I think we should answer. So this is the Reddit question. My son doesn't know what to do after high school. My son just turned 18 and graduated high school this past June. He was all set to join the Marines and go to bootcamp this August. Last minute, he got cold feet and doesn't wanna go. Fair enough.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:07]:
The marines do offer good benefits and college tuition, and he would be a great fit. He scored high on the ASVAB, and physically, he's more than ready and boot camp wouldn't have been that difficult for him. He likes keeping fit and working out. Now he's working full time and that's great. But when I suggest going to community college or trade school to pursue a degree, he explodes. I don't want him to fail in life, and I wanted to have a secure future. Anyone have some advice? He wants to sell stocks and crypto, which is fine, but he might want to get an accountant license to secure an actual job that pays money if he wants to do finance. He also thought about nursing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:38]:
He is all over the place. Basically what's happening here is the mom is stressed out because she wants to put her son into something structured. She just wants to send him somewhere where there's structure, movement, forward momentum. What it looks like is forward momentum that other people can see, because there's nothing wrong with working full time also. And it sounds like he does have other interests and he's kind of experimenting with some stuff, but she's trying to shove him into an accounting license. If he wants to learn how to do those things, which doesn't have to happen. And then at the bottom, she talks about him maybe wanting to go into nursing, which given what she was saying here, maybe is just because she's pushing him to pick some sort of degree to buy. And this is a common concern, I think for a lot of parents, because they just don't want to see their kids stall out after they graduate high school, which is valid.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:26]:
Yeah. I think there is a high proclivity towards action, just doing a bunch of stuff and exactly what you said. A lot of parents, they wanna be able to say when asked, oh, what's Ryan been up to? Oh, well, Ryan is working on his degree in fill in the blank, or Ryan is doing this program for fill in the blank. You don't want to be the person that's like, oh, well, kind of working a bunch of construction jobs, odd jobs here and there. He doesn't really know what he wants to do. That's the attitude that a lot of the parents have. And we know this from experience because we talk to these people all day and not necessarily just the people that are applying for the launch program, but just like people that have young adults in this age range. We're always curious.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:16]:
We're always like, okay, so what are they doing? And then so many times, especially if they have 2 kids in the age range, it's like, oh, well, Jen, she's off at college. She's getting her insert whatever degree that she's probably gonna pay a lot of money and not use. And then the other person, the younger person, older person, doesn't matter. Like, oh, yeah. They're kinda bouncing around jobs here. They don't really know what they're doing. Yeah. That's the spirit of it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:40]:
They're proud because of the action. They're proud because they can say and they can point to like, this is the direction that this child is going to and going in.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:51]:
We're having a conversation not even a week ago with somebody who it was almost cookie cutter. And the reason you use that example is because that is the example. That's how those conversations always go. It's yeah. So and so, well, she's just graduated 24, 25 years old and just graduated. It's going to get her 1st job. And then I don't know why this always happens too with the daughters go to college and then the sons, and then, and the mom's always like, yeah. And so and so just not college material or not college bound.

Hannah Maruyama [00:04:18]:
He's just working and then insert whatever industry he's working in. Even if he's often out earning the first shot, it's just an interesting attitude.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:27]:
Yeah. And then talking about the first part of this question or the first part of this story that she's painting here, which is all about the military, that is a very common occurrence for especially men, young men, parents don't know what to do with them. And they're just like, well, it's either college or the military. This was literally the choice that one of my friends gave his son. And it was very much, okay, well, you're either going into the military or you're going to college. The reason why was because he wanted them out of the house in some way, shape, or form. And to this father, the only way that he could get him out of the house for sure is those two ways because the military, that's the type of job that you get where they pay for your housing and that's all taken care of. And then the college, your room and board is also taken care of as well.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:20]:
Those were like the foolproof ways to get them out of the house instead of, well, why not just get a job and work? Long story short, this was a while ago, but I did say I was like, hey. You know, like, do you want me to talk to him? You want me to some figure out some options for him that would work with what he wants to do? And long story short, no, once again, we were talking about the last episode. It goes back to free. I mean, this guy's like a personal friend of mine. He's a good friend. He has my personal phone number, and we talk. He's like, nah. You know? This is what it is.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:54]:
You know?

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:54]:

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:56]:
I mean, whatever you say. Fast forward, he's in the military now. Shocker. Not super stoked on it. And just like, well, his two options were go into the military or go to college. It wasn't like, well, how would you find a job that could help you get out of the house so that you can find some roommates and then make some money, build experience towards whatever it is that you want to do for the rest of your life. That would help you fulfill the goals that you have. That was never a part of the calculus.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:25]:
And once again, I tried to help.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:27]:
This is a touchy subject. I know too, because a lot of people will come in our comments and say, why don't you ever talk about the military One, because we do talk about the military. The military is degree free pathway. Number 1, it's get a job. Going into the military is getting a job. You were getting a guaranteed job. The reason that we don't rah rah sign up for the military is because I come from military family. My two middle siblings were both in the army, 1 enlisted and one is an officer ROTC.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:52]:
And we have seen up close and I have seen up close that just because there are a lot of benefits does not always mean it's worth the cost. Not that it shouldn't be considered as an option, but a lot of people think that, oh, well, there's no downsides to this option. When in fact, there are a lot of downsides sometimes to that option. And it's something that needs to be weighed very carefully as you should weigh anything that once you sign someone else's in control of where you live and what you do for years, that's very serious and it has its own cost though, not monetary. And though you do gain a lot, when you get the GI bill and you get VA benefits and you get the housing loans at the same time, it's far from free and it can be a very costly option for people, which is why it's not something that we rah, rah promote all the time because the army has recruiters. Also, they don't need us.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:38]:
Interesting that us considering the military as pathway number 1 and lumping it in with get a job. Interesting how that's controversial. People are like, no, it's not a job. I literally don't understand the argument. I understand it from a personal perspective. If you think that you're serving your country and that's your duty, that's your sworn duty to do so. And I get it. Sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:02]:
I used to be a fireman. I understand service. I get it, but I did it as a job. Like I got paid. Yep. And so do these people.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:11]:

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:12]:
So it's a job.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:14]:
The whole thing is a giant marketing machine to make it not feel that way. And And I say that as somebody who grew up in it literally grew up running around on military bases, grew up in the communities on post. That was my childhood. That is how I grew up. And so when I say that I want to make sure that people don't think that I'm hating on the military. What I'm saying is use caution the same way I say with anything else. And it's just interesting though, how many people I think go into it. The other thing is I think there's a lot of people who go into it who maybe don't have family in and they just go, oh, well, I'll just send them to the military.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:43]:
And they maybe don't know very many other people with that are possibly in, or have been in, in recent times. They don't know the cost and the risk associated with that. So I think that that has something to do with it too. But anyway, moving on from the military thing. I want to talk about the fact that she says he's working full time and that's great, but right. And then she immediately says, go to college, go to college, go to college, Even though she doesn't say what job he's working, but I don't see a clear reason for him to just go because she doesn't even say a specific degree. She just says, go get a degree, which is horrible advice always because just go get a degree is not good advice period. In the same way that just go buy a car is bad advice.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:24]:
You just don't go buy things that you don't know that you need yet. That just doesn't make sense. The main thing I wanted to get across here was I wanted to give constructive advice because I think there are a lot of people in this. My son doesn't know what to do after high school. He's 18. He's thought about the military. He's thought about this. He's thought about community college or trade school.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:41]:
And this is going to be real, especially right now while this episode is coming out. And for a lot of the people, all of the graduation stuff has ended or it's like very soon ending. And those that had teenagers that have graduated and those that have just, especially in the graduating class of 2024, you know what I'm talking about. And, oh, well, he has this graduation party to go to. He has this graduation party to go to, this graduation thing, whatever, whatever, whatever. And all of that stuff, like, comes to a head in May, April, May, and then it starts to die down in in the June time. And all of that busyness. And I'm not saying, like, it's bad to be busy, but, you know, it's just like busy work, just like busy.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:25]:
You know, he's like doing a bunch of stuff. And when you're busy, you don't have time to

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:28]:
think. Stew.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:29]:
Right. Exactly. When you're going through depression or something like that, you know, is you wanna keep busy. You're just like, go do the dishes or something like go vacuum your house for the 17th time or something. Keep busy in some way. And in that same way, I mean, all of that activity is okay. Well, we got to do all this stuff Saturday, Wednesday or something. Oh my God.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:46]:
Now it's starting to die down and the reality kind of starts to set in. Oh, okay. Well, what are they doing? And so this is timely, I think.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:57]:
Yeah, I think so. And I think that her panic is very much something that a lot of parents and a lot of moms specifically are experiencing, but it looks like she's flailing trying to get him to go into any college that she can get him to go into for any reason. It doesn't look like she cared. She's just trying to push him into some sort of institution in some way. And that seems to be the issue, which is probably why he's blowing up. And this is something where we have insider knowledge because we talk to parents and their young adults. And it does get to a point where it's just so much input and it's difficult. And there's just overload with trying to figure out what to do and try to do it now and figure out and just do something.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:36]:
I had a parent say to me, this mom, she said, I love you, but also am I buried in the back yard. Get out of my house. And I just thought that was so funny. I died laughing when she said that to me. And she said, you know, that's how you feel though. She said, you know, I love you so much. I would take a bullet for you, but also I might put 1 in you, like get, just go, just do something. And so this mom is probably experiencing very much that feeling, but basically what she needs to do is if she wants to talk this out with him, which I know is a difficult thing to do, especially when they've been going at it in this way.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:10]:
And there's probably a lot of friction now. So basically the way that parents can actively try to help their kids through this, if they've been, you need to do something, you need to do something, and that's a sticking point and you guys are getting into it and it's causing tension in your household. And it's just making your kids shut down or leave or ignore you more. What you should do is 1, get out of your house with them, take them somewhere, go get ice cream, go get a snack, and go do something. Go out of the house, go to a Mexican restaurant, get some tortilla chips and just sit down and talk to them. You know, whatever you got to do, get them by themselves out of their environment and just kind of ask them open ended questions about what they want in life, not what they want to do because they don't know. And that is something I think that a lot of people will, it will be useful for them. Ask them, Hey, you know, when you're 30, where do you picture yourself? Who's around you? This is literally how I ask these questions in the launch program.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:03]:
What does your family look like? Who's there? And don't hammer them with questions. Just casually ask these questions and then say, you know, where do you think you're going to stay here? Or is there some place you've always wanted to move? And then ask them, do you want to own a house? Do you want to live in an apartment like we live? Just ask them what they want. And once you have them talking about what they want, because it's easy for human beings to picture the physical things that they want. It is. Most of us can easily picture the physical things that we'd like to have or people we'd like to have around us or where we'd like to be. Just a couple hours ago, I had a call who just came into the launch program and he said very specifically, gave me ecosystem specifics about where he wants to live. Anywhere that the ground doesn't crack when you walk on it. He's like, I just want to be around pine trees where you got to wear a jacket.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:49]:
That was what he said. That's just how he feels because it's easy for them to picture where they want to be, even though they can't picture what career will get them there or what job or what path will get them there. So ask them those questions, because now what you have is you have some context and you have some goals and it's much easier to help them figure out what's going to get them to those places. Then just trying to pick out of all the options and worse instead of picking out of all the job options, you're just picking, go to this college and then get this degree and then maybe try to get that. There's very little strategy actually to doing that. And people think that it's strategic to just go into a college and get a degree, but the strategy happens before that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:31]:
Yeah, this is especially important. I mean, getting out of the house and having these conversations is important for everybody, especially for people like this parent here that are giving suggestions before asking questions. What we want to do is we want to ask as many questions as possible of your child and get as much information as we can out of them about what they want. If we can get all of this information out about what they want, then we can figure out how to build a plan to get there. But just blindly suggesting things is bound to irritate anybody. Why don't you lose some weight? If losing the weight is what you think they should do. Like, why don't you lift weights or why don't you walk for 30 minutes a day or why don't you go run a marathon? You don't even know my goals. I don't understand.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:15]:
You're just shouting things at me. Yeah. And I'm like, that's not going to be well received at all. I wouldn't receive that well at all. Hey there. I hope that you're loving this episode of the degree free podcast. We spend a ton of time every week creating this content for you. So my only ask is you take a quick second to leave a review or thumbs up on whatever platform you're on.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:33]:
It's one of the best and easiest ways that you can support this podcast, and this simple action can help bring more people into the degree free community. At degree free, we wanna help as many people as we can thrive and succeed without needing a college degree. Your review will be a step in that direction. If you could do this small favor right now, pause this and leave a review. It would truly mean the world to us. Thank you and back to the show. And so that's really important. I want to talk a little bit about what you're talking about.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:00]:
This approach is we didn't, like, pioneer this approach. 1, it's just kind of common sense when you think about it like that. But Tony Robbins talks about this a lot, and it's like, 1, you start with your why. Like, why are you doing all of this? Whatever it is, whatever the change that you're trying to make in life.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:16]:
Yeah. Career, like you said, losing weight. Yeah. Exactly. Get stronger.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:19]:
And for us, you don't come to us and and you don't listen to this podcast. You don't consume our content if you're not trying to make a change. That's just the way that it is. We're not an entertainment podcast, unfortunately. And we wish we did entertainment podcast numbers because those guys like they kill, kill it. Like we're not super entertaining.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:36]:
Hey guys, guys, if you watch the YouTube video, just hang on with us. Tell Ryan that you want us to start a YouTube channel to do react videos. I'm campaigning for it. And I need your help. I want you to review this, give it a 5 star review. And in the review, say, Hannah said to give this 5 star review. Ryan, start a YouTube channel react channel.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:53]:
You know, you start with the why. Okay. Awesome. This is why I wanna have this. I wanna have this. I wanna have this. And then the last thing out of all of it, you know, if you're like, who, what, where, and why, that type that type of thing. The last thing is, like, the how.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:06]:
That's your final piece of the bridge.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:08]:
Is the last thing that we talk about. If you look at my own life, and I've talked about it before, my goal of retiring by 40, if you had asked me when I was 16 years old when I made that goal, it was probably gonna be, like, being an investment banker or something. That's how I was gonna do it because that's the only jobs that I knew. And I talk about this story in the book that's coming out if you guys want the book. And the book goes over how to have these conversations, like literally these conversations.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:33]:
There's worksheets.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:34]:
Yeah. We have a bunch of worksheets in the book. If you want to get that book so that you can have these conversations with your 16 to 20 year old, go to degreefree.clforward/book, and you can order it. I'm not sure when the launch date is or anything like that. It's on pre order now, as of this recording, not sure if it's gonna be launched by the time that this comes out. Probably not. But anyway, it'll walk you through all of this in this worksheet so that you can figure all of this out with your young adult. And it's meant to literally be there because we've seen the best results when the parents are involved in this process.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:08]:
Like in the launch program, for example, they're not on the calls. Sometimes they are most of the times they're not, but they are involved. What I mean by that is that after our sessions the child or the young adult, they will go and have conversations with their family.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:27]:
These are kitchen table conversations, right?

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:29]:
They'll have conversations about the things that we talked about in our sessions. They'll be like, okay, well, this is what I said I wanted. And then a lot of times the questions that we're asking them, this is the first time that anybody asked them these questions.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:40]:

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:41]:
They're like simple things, like how much money do you want to make? And if they don't know, what's interesting is that a lot of kids actually do, or at least they have an, a kind of an idea of it. But even if they don't know they, okay, well the downstream questions are everything that you just said. Right? Well, where do you want to live? What kind of house do you want to live in? Do you want a pet? What does your diet look like? That type of stuff. And this is okay. Well, then you can kind of round out a budget, at least sort of. Yeah. At least get an idea. And then once again, like, estimates are better

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:10]:
than nothing,

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:11]:
than nothing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:11]:
And just go by degree.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:12]:
It's good to have you, the parent involved in this process. And that's why we made this book that way. There's a parent copy and there's a young adult copy. You both have your own and you both work through it at the same time, having these conversations and trying to work through all of this.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:28]:
You're bringing up something I actually really want to touch on that I think is very important. That is that young adults at this age, they are wired to not listen to their parents because it's a protection mechanism. It's to help them be independent. They naturally want to do what they want to do. They naturally want to break off on their own. We are as humans designed that way. But something that I wanted to point out is it's exactly what you said, but it's telling somebody, Hey, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? But if you were strategic about this, you can lead your young adult horse to water and they will drink it because they are thirsty. So what's funny about this is the parent that came through the program with her young adult.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:09]:
She was saying that as they were having conversations, when their son got his vocational creativity list back in the launch program, They were going through it at the kitchen table one night. And what's funny is the ones that he ended up narrowing on his list and prioritizing really near the top of his choices. 3 of them, 3 of the ones that made it to his narrowed list, 3 of the 5 were ones that his parents had suggested to him previously. But because they didn't say it to him and he felt like he had control over the situation because he literally did, it was all him. He picked them. It's exactly what you said. It's the difference between you saying I'm hungry and me saying, well, why don't you go get pizza? Why don't we get Thai food? Why don't you get whatever? Exactly what you said. It would irritate anybody.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:52]:
But when someone says, oh, you're hungry, here's this list. What looks good to you? Then they pick the things. A lot of times their parents know them really well. They know that some of these jobs would be suited to them. And so some parents say that some of the value was just having someone else other than us say it to them so that they, in their independence and wanting to be independent can choose that and then realize, Oh, wait, this does fit what I want.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:14]:
It's kind of, sort of like listening or having your spouse say something to you. And then it's like, oh, well we should do that. Did you see that? We should go and do that ourselves. And then when your spouse comes and shows you a TikTok of that exact same thing, I'd be like, oh, we should go do that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:36]:
Woah, shots fired in

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:37]:
the degree

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:38]:
free studio.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:38]:
And they're like, oh, did I just say that? Like yesterday? I'm pretty sure I said that. Cause I was there when I said it. For those of you

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:47]:
who are wondering, he was so excited when he heard me say that his eyes lit up.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:52]:
But not only that, though, it's a little different though. It can be for some parents. It is that for some parents and young adults, it is that they did go through all of this stuff. They said, okay, well, what do you need? What do you want from your work? How many parents of the people that we've worked with do that? Like one, like literally 1, because this stuff is difficult because you have to have a high level of vocational creativity. This is our job. This is what we do. And we've said this before, like, you know, we've had parents who are like, man, I feel bad that I don't know this stuff. Like, I feel bad that I can't help my child work through this stuff and find these careers.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:26]:
Like, wow, this is amazing. I can't believe you found these careers and I can't believe you found these paths. And I say, well, don't feel bad about it. I mean, you have your job and I have my job.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:35]:
And our job is to equip them.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:36]:
It's your most precious thing in your life. And you care so much about them. You feel like, well, I should be better at this in some senses. It's not just coming from their parent and that has a lot of value, but then on the flip side, the way that they got there, if 3 out of those 5 were the same, they might not have gotten there the same way. So if they didn't get there the same way, it's not the same thing. They're just saying a bunch of things. And you didn't ask questions first. And so

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:06]:
here's a menu

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:06]:
looping that back around to what I was saying, which is we're talking about like, not worrying about the how, which is like the, how was like the last thing we worry about. If my goal was to retire by 40, well, I was super concerned with the how. Okay. Well, investment banker and well, I tell this story in the book, so I won't belabor it here. That was it. And I was like, okay. Well, I'm super concerned about the house. And then I was like, is that really what I should be doing? Why am I doing all of this? And then looking at it, okay.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:30]:
Well, if I want more freedom, if I don't wanna be tied to a desk or to an office or to anything or to a company or anything like that, And I want a high degree of freedom if I want to yeah. If I wanna be home with my family. Okay. Well, is this working all of those hours being at a physical office? At least at the time back then it might be different now working all those hours. I don't want to do that. Really getting clear on the what, and then like that leads more, let me down entrepreneurship. And it led me down being a business owner. And with a lot of the suggestions that parents give their young adults.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:06]:
What about this community college program? What about this vocational school program? What about this trade school program? What about this? What about that? You're just skipping to the how. Like, you're just skipping all the way to the end instead of going over the most important things, all of the other stuff between where we are now and that suggestion. That's all the important stuff.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:28]:
Yeah. If you wanna be effective at helping your recent high school graduate figure out what to do, you have to work backwards. You don't tell them to buy a degree or suggest multiple different types of ways to buy degrees in order to figure out what they should do. That's not a strategic way to figure out where they're trying to get, and they're going to resist it because you're going to miss the mark because you're shooting in the dark. Exactly. As you said, that's why we wrote the book.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:50]:
Yeah. And then speaking about the book, this actually is a perfect segue into what I wanted to talk about. This book has been insane. I mean, it was a very good learning experience, although this is our 3rd book that we've written. And I say we, if you look at the books that you've written too, and I've only written this is my first one. You and I wrote those first two books together. It was just strategic that you were the only author of that. Even though this is our 3rd book that we're writing, this book required so much and it there was like so much work that went into it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:23]:
It was a full time job writing it. And I actually wanna talk about our disagreement over launching it. And we talked about launching it either this year or next year. My thought was purely from a marketing standpoint. Not that we couldn't have written it or write it like we did. We obviously did it's done as of this recording. It is done. The writing is done.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:49]:
We have the cover designed. We did the cover testing. We did all that stuff. And then it is at the

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:55]:
typesetter. Yeah. That's a job by the way.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:57]:
Is that the typesetter right now? And then we are waiting to get it back so that we can order a proof of it. Once we order the proof, we read the proofs, make

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:05]:
sure they're right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:05]:
And then we order all of our copies.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:06]:
We're so freaking excited.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:08]:
Yeah. And my vote on this. So obviously we could get it written. We wrote it. I was thinking about launching it next year around this time, like probably a couple of months earlier than this, probably in the April timeframe in time for graduation next year, even though it would have been written. My vote was to launch it then. And your vote was to launch it now. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:34]:
Basically now, or really, it was like 2 months ago that you wanted to launch it, which it wouldn't have been ready at all.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:40]:
No. And you said that it wouldn't be and you were right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:42]:
We'll do an episode later for those people that are thinking about writing books. We already did episodes of how to write a book. I think this is 2 years ago now. We'll put links in the show notes. I think it's like why you should be an author and then how to write a book or something like that. And then we'll put links in the show notes and I'll update that episode. We'll probably make one of those episodes soon and talk about the process that we went through to write this thing. And if you're thinking about writing a book, you can see what we did and copy off far notes.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:13]:
Because I personally wish that I had other people's notes to copy off of. We will provide those notes for you. But anyway, I wanted to talk about this because we disagreed on the launch of this. And I thought it was interesting, at least from a business perspective. This is for those job seekers, for those career changers, or for those people that are working jobs right now. And then even for those young adults that are listening to this, okay. When you disagree with something in a business or in a work setting, like what do you do and how do we come to agreements and how do we resolve disputes? I wanted to get this thing written and then wait till next year to launch it from a marketing perspective, from a launch perspective, because I thought that we would be more successful economically if we waited a year and we launched it, we're able to build demand and launch it to a room of people that wanted this product instead of writing it. Like I said, it's a full time job.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:17]:
It's a full time job writing this thing on top of our full time jobs.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:20]:
I would not recommend to those of you listening to try to write and publish a book as quickly as we did. We've been writing it for a long time, but then after we had this discussion and settled it, we go, all right, we got to make sure this thing is done and we got to get it ready. And then it's been very many hours, many, many, much, many moons.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:39]:
And what's interesting for the everybody that has bought this and who will buy this and who's going to read these books. It's not long. I promise This is one of the most impactful books that you will buy if you are struggling with what your young adult in the age of 16 to 20 years old wants to do, needs to do, how to reach the goals that they have in life, how to identify those goals, like, this is the most important book that you'll ever buy. I will stand behind that. That's easy. Hands down.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:06]:
Yeah. There's nothing like it either.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:07]:
But it's only a 100 pages. All that said, it's only a 100 pages, but it still took forever. And because we're trying to make a good product that people tell other people and is from a marketing standpoint, it kind of snowballs from there. You and I, we had a disagreement about it and we said, okay, well, I said we can write this thing and we don't have to work full time on it. If we say next year, we had it pretty much 80% written maybe 2 months ago, 3 months ago, 4 months ago, sometime earlier this year. I was like, okay, it's pretty much 80% written here. We can work on this slowly throughout the next 3 months and we can get this thing completely set. And then when it's set, then we can do all the things that we're doing now, all the testing, all of the titles, all of this stuff.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:55]:
And then when we're done with that, 2 months later, we can then start marketing it for 6 months and build demand for 6 months, which is exactly what book publishers do. If you think about it, it's exactly what movie studios do. If you look at actors at the premiere of their movies, they look different than the person that's on the screen. Why? Because it's been like 2 years since they shot the film.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:17]:
Forever ago.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:17]:
Yep. Right? They shot the film, like, a year and a half ago. What were they doing in a year and a half? Well, yeah. Sure. They were editing it and making it and all the post production stuff, but then a lot of it is they were just marketing it. It was already done. It was done months ago. It was done months ago.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:31]:
But you have to let people know or they won't know to go see it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:34]:
That was my argument. And a lot of this too is vocational creativity. A lot of things that involve with vocational creativity just also has to do with how do different industries work, but how do different businesses operate and how different markets and different segments operate.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:48]:
What are their incentives? Why do

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:50]:
they not? So this is part of that. Okay. So I was like, okay, well, 6 months of marketing, if you get this thing done by November or so we can market this thing for 6 months, build up demand, get a bunch of pre sales, and then ultimately get that into more hands of people. Does it mean that we make more money? Yeah, obviously, but really we want to have a greater impact and we want to get this out to more people. And I don't want it to fall on deaf ears as so many things that you and I have done before in business have been. How many things have we launched that nobody gave a.

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:26]:
So many.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:26]:
So many.

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:27]:
I can't even count.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:28]:
So many. And I told you, like, this is going to be different. We're going to put so much work in and this is going to be different. Okay. If you think that's a good argument, I would agree with you.

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:38]:
For people that write in and people that comment and people that DM, we see them and my motivation for doing it now was I'm just tired of seeing people and their kids go to college and having it fail them. And then watching them deal with the repercussions of that. And I'm tired of watching it happen. And this is the most effective thing that we have done to reach the most people possible. This thing is accessible to everybody, and that is why we did it to begin with. And I do not want it to skip this group of people, this round of graduating seniors. And because of that, that's why we're doing it now. And that was my argument was, yes, we could reach more people, but what about the ones now? Because the messages that we get, the emails that we get, the things that parents tell me, they keep me up.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:36]:
They keep me up. I don't want to see this round of seniors in 2 years, coming back to the law program with 50, $60,000 worth of student debt and a lot of regret. I don't want to see that. That's why we're doing

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:46]:
this. Reaching the most people possible was also my goal. Yeah. Was also my goal. In fact, I would argue that reaching the most possible people was more my goal than your goal.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:58]:
I think so.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:59]:
You just want speed. You wanted speed to the market and you wanted to, like you said, just not miss this cohort of people. And then hopefully we can save this cohort of people $30,000 so many people that come through the launch program and just very candidly, some of our best customers in the launch program are people like that. Like people that have 1 year of doing something, whatever it is, usually college and then not working out and then breaking out of college and making the, Hey, I can't make this purchase anymore. I can't keep purchasing this thing every single year. And okay. Well, now you're $30,000 in debt too. And so, yes, I completely understand what you're saying.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:42]:
I just wanted to make it known that I was also thinking about reaching the most amount of people. And I think from a marketing perspective, if we were able to reach a mass, like there's a tipping point, basically, if we were able to market this thing for 6 months, we were be able to hopefully reach some sort of tipping point where it just snowballs and then everybody hears about it and everybody can use the degree free way to help their young adults build the life they want. And that was my argument before it. So anyway, we had this discussion and you won, I guess. I

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:18]:
did. I did. Even though Ryan's usually right. So you were probably right about this too, but time will tell.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:24]:
Time will tell. Exactly. And we have some metrics that we thought, how would we know this is success?

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:28]:
Cause you folks know we're big on goals. So we have some goals.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:31]:
That is what I wanted to talk about is we made the decision together to launch it this year and launch it soon. Once again, we're kind of doing it pretty hazardly. This is going to be coming out on the 12th or 19th or something like that. Started marketing it. And we haven't started marketing it. We don't have a launch date. We took some pre orders and stuff like that. Like when this episode comes out is when it should have been shipped, but it's probably not gonna be shipped by these days.

Ryan Maruyama [00:34:54]:
And I have to send everybody that pre ordered emails. We're doing it so hazardly now. And it's like, okay, well, it is what it is. Anyway, we're going to get a launch date soon to you folks. And so this is what it looks like when you disagree in business at work, especially if you're business owners. And even if you're at the same level with this person that you have to make a decision with, you guys might be on the complete opposite sides, but it's, you just have to make a decision. And it was, I said before Bezos said it, but I'm going to say that Bezos said it because it gives it more

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:28]:
credibility. Credibility instead of like, oh, yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:32]:
Oh, Ryan Mariel podcaster to thousands of people a week says to do this. Or I am

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:38]:
a podcaster.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:39]:
Yeah, exactly. Or Jeff Bezos says to do this. So I will say I've been saying this for years, but then he also said this and I heard it recently that he said this and I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to say that Jeff Bezos says this, even though I said it before him.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:54]:
I know it's okay.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:55]:
Disagreeing commit. You and I have tried that. We've been trying to master that for years and You have. I'm much better at it than I used to be. I think from a, just an objective standpoint, I'm much better at it than

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:11]:
you. Yeah. It's something that I am very poor at. I'm also working on

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:15]:
Disagreeing and committing like 100%, even though I disagree with the actions that we're doing. Like we have to make a decision this year or next year. We have to make a decision. We just made a decision and I fully committed and we fully committed to the process of getting this done while I wanted 6 months to do just nothing but marketing this book, like nothing, but doing the launch of this book, we're going to have like a week or in 10 days or something like that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:43]:
Yeah. We can do it.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:44]:
Right. Anyway, I just felt compelled. It's because writing this book has been

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:50]:
a traumatic experience. Week when we got up at 4 in the morning y'all to write this book and get this stuff done. That's our life right now. We're the 4 AM crew.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:57]:
Yeah. 4 AM. Yeah. Exactly.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:58]:
Oh, I want t shirt. Freaking, I want t shirts with that on there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:02]:
I do. Has, No.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:04]:
He's 4:30 AM.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:05]:
Yeah. He's 4:30.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:06]:
No. So you don't know.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:07]:
He's 4:26 crew.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:08]:
We're going to fricking, we're going to have 4 am crew t shirts to outdo. Are we harder than Jocko holds up? That's right. I mean, harder than general Jocko's

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:16]:
wild. Yeah. That's what I wanted to talk about. Disagreeing, committing, you're going to have disagreements and you just got to resolve them and then just commit. Because at the end of the day, you and I have the same goal reach the most people possible. Like that was the goal. And you and I are just disagreeing on how to get there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:35]:
And time will tell.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:36]:
And if you like this little segment, this is kind of like my little, getting my feet wet here. He wants to talk about business. One, this is business stuff. I don't really wanna talk about business stuff while married because that's not really what we do. Yeah. I mean, like, obviously,

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:52]:
and we are in business.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:53]:
We are married and we are in business. So we do it literally every single day.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:56]:
If your business stuff is naturally gonna be that way.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:58]:
Right. But that's not what we talk about is what I meant to say.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:00]:
Absolutely. We do get a lot of questions about it though.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:02]:
But I would like to talk about business more. I don't know where it fits into what we do right now. It probably doesn't at all, but I'm down. If you guys want to hear more about business stuff, let me know. YouTube, Spotify comments.

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:14]:
A good way to do that would be if your young adult has questions about how to start a business or their own business that they've been trying to run, then submit those. That's what we should ask people to do because Ryan can help. He's pretty good at that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:27]:
And we've been talking a lot about the degree free way, which is the book that we have coming out. If you would like to get a copy of that for you and your young adult to work through these things together, to get a plan, to get a career path that fits their goals and helps them build the life they want. You can go to degreefree.coforward/book to get that. We talked about the launch program as well. If you would like to apply for the launch program, you can go to degreefree.co/launch as well. And I think that's pretty much it for this week. Have anything else?

Hannah Maruyama [00:38:59]:
I'm good. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:39:00]:
I think that's pretty much it. Until next week, guys. Aloha.

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