September 27, 2023

How to Help Your Child Be Degree Free Right Now: Vocational Creativity (DF#116)

How to Help Your Child Be Degree Free Right Now: Vocational Creativity (DF#116)

How To Prepare Your Children In The Upcoming Degree Free World

In this episode of the Degree Free Podcast, we explore how parents can help their children prepare for a future without a college degree. We discuss the importance of vocational creativity and provide practical advice and resources for parents and job seekers.

- Discover the limitations of traditional education systems and the need for parents to take an active role in teaching vocational creativity.
- Learn how parents can guide their children in exploring different job options, even without exposure to screens or media.
- Understand the value of vocational creativity in helping children explore different job possibilities and preparing them for the future.
- Explore simple exercises like dissecting products or services to identify the various jobs involved in creating them.
- Recognize the benefits of starting early and consistently exposing children to different careers to broaden their options and avoid feeling trapped in their choices.

Join us for this enlightening conversation on the Degree Free Podcast as we delve into the importance of vocational creativity and how parents can empower their children to thrive without a college degree.

Don't miss out on the practical advice and resources we provide for both parents and job seekers.

Tune in and unlock a world of possibilities for your child's future!

Enjoy the episode!

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Want to learn about how Hannah went from unemployed to earning $185,000 at an AI startup? Check out the previous episode!

Links and Notes from the Episode

Episode Summary:

in this episode, Ryan and Hannah discusses vocational creativity and its application for children's success without a college degree. They introduce the "5 degree-free pathways" framework and stress the importance of parents actively guiding and exposing their children to different job opportunities.

They mention how a child's environment can influence vocational creativity. The conversation highlights the need for children to understand various careers and how they can prepare for them. The hosts mention benefits of vocational creativity and suggest daily practices to expose children to different jobs and encourage curiosity.

Ryan and Hannah also offer guidance on exploring career options, including watching YouTube videos of specific jobs and researching familiar industries. They emphasize the need to help children discover their interests and talents early on and provide resources for navigating career choices without relying on traditional college paths.

Connect with Ryan:

Connect With Hannah:

Action Steps & Recommendations:

  • Guide your children actively and expose them to different job opportunities.
  • Understand the different pathways to success without a college degree: getting a job, finding an apprenticeship or paid on-the-job training, earning a license or certification, building a business, and learning a skill.
  • Recognize that schools and teachers may not provide sufficient vocational creativity, so it is important for parents to take an active role.
  • Consider how your child's environment, such as their parents' professions or homeschooling experiences, can influence their vocational creativity.
  • Help children understand different careers and how to prepare for them, emphasizing the importance of vocabulary and defining job roles.
  • Encourage daily practices that expose children to different jobs and foster curiosity about job responsibilities and requirements.


  • 00:02:16 - Introduction to the 5 degree free pathways
  • 00:04:49 - The need for parents to actively guide their children's career choices
  • 00:13:11 - Lack of exposure to various jobs
  • 00:15:25 - Importance of defining job terms
  • 00:20:01 - Building a job encyclopedia for kids
  • 00:23:10 - Finding job-related content on YouTube
  • 00:24:48 - Exploring different careers by starting with what you currently do
  • 00:25:26 - Using the rubric of job duties, salary, and work environment to identify potential careers

References, Resources Mentioned & Suggested Reading:

Episode Transcript
Please enjoy this transcript or our episode!

Please note the transcript may have a few errors. We're human. It can be hard to catch all the errors from a full length conversation. Enjoy!

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:00]:

You can't leave this up to chance right now. If your kids are in a school, there is a very low likelihood that the people who are teaching them have a high level of vocational creativity. Just unlikely. The reason is because the people who are teachers do not have a high level of vocational creativity because they did a job that was right in front of them for years. And so you can't rely on people who do not have vocationally creative jobs to teach that concept to children, and you can't rely on them to fully explain and allow kids to know what their options are.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:43]:

A folks, and welcome back to degree free where we teach you how to get hired without a college degree. We are your hosts, Ryan and Hannah Maruyama. It is great to have you back.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:52]:

Welcome back. Welcome back to the podcast. As always, folks, we are stoked to have you with us today.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:57]:

Yes. And without any further ado, let's a Jump into what we are gonna be talking about today. Today, we are gonna be talking about how to help your child be degree free a Right now, this is something that we have questions on all the time when people are like, well, a Okay. We have this framework. This is when we're teaching people the 5 degree free pathways, which I'll go over in a second. A And then a lot of the questions come up where they're saying, oh, well, my kid is 10, 11, 12, 1. A How young can they be before I start them on a degree free path? And then, 2, a How do I start them on that path? Because with the 5 degree free pathways, Like, I don't wanna start them finding a job or finding an apprenticeship or on the job training or earn a license or certification or build a business or learn a skill. A They're too young for that. They're still in school, but how can I start preparing them right now to be prepared a When they do graduate high school, 17, 18 years old, to not go to college, be degree free, and then, you know, come out ahead?

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:16]:

So as a quick recap for those who do not know what the 5 degree free pathways are. This is a framework that Ryan and I created to help you find direction and the next actionable steps a whenever you are looking for a new job or a new opportunity. It's really useful if you're looking for a college alternative, but it's also useful if you're trying to change jobs or careers. It doesn't matter if you have a degree. It doesn't matter if you're degree free. It doesn't matter if you have industry experience or if you've ever done that job before. Does not matter. The 5 degree free pathways will help you, 1, that's pathway number 1, is get a job. Pathway number 2 is find apprenticeship or paid on the job training. Pathway number 3 is earn a license or certification. Pathway number 4 is build a business, and pathway number 5 is learn a skill. This is episode 96 for those of you who want to listen to the full episode about the pathways in-depth. The link will be in the show notes. And then also, you can take a course on this if you want to. It's degreefree.c0forward/pathways, and that will actually provide you the link to a free course where you can take the whole thing and go over in-depth all of the pathways a so that you know what they are, and you can share that with other people too.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:26]:

Those things are really, really actionable. Right? And those are the things that you can do right now, and those are the things that you can do a If you are a high school junior or a high school senior or even, like, a high school sophomore, you can start working a On those things, learning a skill, earning a license or certification, building a business, you can do those things really early. But let's say that you are a little bit a Younger. So what do you do? Well, we wanna start as early as possible thinking about different jobs a That they wanna do or even just being educated about different jobs that are out there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:04:02]:

And this is something too, I think, that a lot of parents need to key in on and listen up about, and that is that you can't leave this up to chance right now. If your kids are in a school, a there is a very low likelihood that the people who are teaching them have a high level of vocational creativity. Just unlikely. The reason is because the people who are teachers do not have a high level of vocational creativity because they did a job that was right in front of them for years. And so you can't rely on people who do not have vocationally creative jobs to teach that concept to children, and you can't rely on them to fully explain and allow kids to know what their options are.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:49]:

Hey there. I hope that you're loving this episode of the degree free podcast. We spend a ton of time every week a creating this content for you. So my only ask is you take a quick second to leave a review or a thumbs up on whatever platform you're on. It's one of the best and easiest ways that you can support this podcast, and this simple action can help bring more people into the degree free community. At degree free, we wanna help as many people as we can thrive and succeed without needing a college a Your review will be a step in that direction. If you could do this small favor right now, pause this and leave a review, it would truly mean the world to us. Thank you, and back to the show.

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:23]:

Now that's gonna be a controversial take. It was really unpopular when I said it on TikTok too, where I just said that guidance and career counselors at high schools are not really super good at teaching vocational creativity, because they don't have a lot of it. They took a career path that was right in front of them. And so they don't have a lot of it themselves, because they chose a path that was well laid out, well documented that many people had traveled before, and it was very obvious to them. And so it's difficult for them to think dynamically about all of the different facets of different jobs and different industries because they just don't have a lot of experience with those things. And so parents need to really key in, really clock back in for this specific sort of, I don't wanna say thought training, but kind of so that kids can actually get the benefit of having someone who is actively guiding them down, looking at different work and saying, hey. Did you know you can do that? Hey. Did you know that this is a job that you can get paid to do? And that's something that you don't have to have a high level of vocational creativity to do, but you do have to actively teach it to your child. And so you kinda have to learn it first.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:32]:

A Yeah. Absolutely. You kinda gave it away there, but the way to help your kid is with this thing that we call vocational creativity. A And we did an entire episode about this before, and I will link that in the show notes along with everything else that we talk about a a degree free .c0forward/podcast. Before we head in that direction, a I did wanna talk to the people that don't have kids and the people that are just job seekers trying to change their jobs, trying to change their life, trying to change their work. A This is still a very useful framework for you as well, especially if you are unclear about your next step. A So for example, myself, when I was a bartender, I didn't know what the next step out of that was. A No idea. And a lot of it had to do with me not knowing what jobs were out there. So I just wanted to say that this isn't just for a People with kids, although that is what this episode is going to be focused on. And then also for a more recent example, a I am currently helping someone go from being a almost lifelong creative person, Videographer, video editor, and such trying to completely get a different role. But when we first started working together, a, the thing that he said to me was, oh, I don't know what jobs are out there. I just know that I need to get out of the situation that I'm in now. A If this is you, if that is you, then do these exercises because it will help. So the basis of vocational creativity can be the most easily depicted in kids, right, and which is what this episode's about. If you ask a Kids that are 10, 12 years old or so, what they wanna do when they grow up, a They're gonna give you the same 10 answers every single time.

Hannah Maruyama [00:08:37]:

I will say, though, I would be interested to see how that differs between a if they go to public school versus if they're part of a charter school versus if they're homeschooled. Right? Because I'm just thinking about what a kid might say if, let's say, they're homeschooled and their parents run a farm. What did their vocational creativity top of mind jobs look like. Because I would bet you a lot of them have to do with agriculture. A lot of them have to do with running a farm stand or whatever people can tell that we don't run a homestead right now or a farm because I don't really know. But I would guess that that list changes a lot based on what they see because that's what they see. Right? If their parents are software developers and work from home and those kids happen to be homeschooled. I wonder if how much that list shifts quite a lot.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:29]:

Yeah. I'm sure that that has something to do with it because a Look at your own life. You don't know what you don't know. And this is I'm talking about not just you. I'm just talking about, like, anyone. I'm talking about me too. A Right. When I was thinking about leaving the service industry, my idea of leaving the service industry is like, oh, maybe I'll become a manager a Of a restaurant.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:52]:

Because it's right in front of you.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:53]:

Right. And at least I don't have to be on stage for 8 hours, you know, but behind the bar for 8 hours, and I can a hole up in an office, and I can do that instead. And then everyone's at

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:06]:

the wall. Teams right now going, we don't do that. We walk floor.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:09]:

Yeah. Right. Exactly. And I touch everything.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:13]:

I think you and I both had the same person in mind when we when we a When we just said that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:18]:

And so that said, I still think there's the core list that kids are going to have, a And it's the things that they see, which goes to what you're saying because this is prevalent, especially in the US is which is a Who we talk to? Firemen, policemen, ambulance, doctors, YouTubers, those types of things that people see a On a day to day basis or is elevated in society, those are what they want to do. Sorry.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:47]:

This just reminded me, I have a friend who's homeschooled both for kids since, you know, since they were born, obviously. And her son I believe her oldest son is 6 now. And she told me that he asked what school was because he doesn't know because he doesn't go to school, and they don't take time off. Like, they just learn year round, and they just do work differently. So he has no concept of really what that looks like because that's just not what his life looks like. That's not what his learning looks like. And so I would venture to say he's not sure, like, what a teacher is in a conventional role because he's never experienced one. He has no idea what that means. And so that's kind of interesting too. Right? Because, like, whether or not the kid is exposed to YouTube, a lot of kids now. Like, one of the top jobs as you've listed is YouTuber, but it's because a lot of kids watch a lot of YouTube. But if they don't use screens or they don't watch a lot of TV or YouTube, how would they know? Right? They're not gonna wanna be a YouTuber if they don't see those things.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:40]:

I'm glad that you brought this up because this reminded me of a conversation a that I was having with a buddy of mine. It was about one of the episodes. So I had on Gene Torres a Who is a presales engineer at Zerto, which is a subsidiary of Hewlett Packard Enterprise, a or it's like a company owned by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. So I was having a conversation with one of our friends because I am friends with Gene, a And then we both have another friend. He doesn't listen to this podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:15]:

He doesn't listen to the degree free podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:17]:

I know.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:18]:

Can you let anyone be as embarrassed as Ryan's friend. Make sure your friends listen to the degree free podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:24]:

Absolutely. Make sure that your friends listen to this podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:28]:

Friends don't let friends not listen to the degree free podcast.

Ryan Maruyama [00:12:31]:

Definitely. So share this with a friend. Share this with somebody who is a In a similar situation that have kids at a young age that are thinking about, like, how do I prepare them for the future? A Or kids that are college ish age, and they're like, I don't know what to do. Because one of the things that I've noticed and sorry. I'm going on a little bit of a tangent. But one of the things that I've noticed, a There are other people that talk about college alternatives and in that space that that we're in. And the more people in the space, the better. Because, really, a I just don't think that most people need to go to college.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:05]:

There are not enough brains on this issue.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:08]:

Right. But what a lot of people don't get to is a really succinct Framework of what else to do. And I'm not busting on anybody. That was us.

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:19]:

Yeah. Before we'd be like, yeah. Do whatever you want. A useless

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:22]:

not helpful. Super unhelpful. So if you know anybody that is in that situation who has college ish a Age kids or they have young kids that they know they aren't going to college, share this episode with them. A Share the degree free pathways course with them, degreefree.c0forward/pathways to get an idea of what is out there. A But I was having a discussion with him because he doesn't watch or listen to the podcast usually. A And he sends me a time stamp of the episode, and it's, like, 2 minutes in. A And he's just like snore fast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:03]:

Wow. And

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:05]:

I know. And I was just like, okay.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:08]:

That a That sounds like something he would say.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:09]:

Yeah. I was like, that's not super useful, but I asked him. I was like, okay. So what was boring about it? So what he said is because a Just tell me how to become a presales engineer. Get to Gene's part of the story where he says, this is how I did it. A Therefore, I can do the same thing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:26]:

Yeah. But that's because he knows what one is.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:28]:

That's exactly what I said.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:30]:

The person he's talking about is an engineer, so he knows what a presale

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:33]:

is doing. Being said, the person that I'm talking about is an engineer, but he's in a different type of engineering, and a Gene is in software sales.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:41]:

They're completely separate. But, I mean, he's had exposures to that before. He knows what it is.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:46]:

Well, he's friends with him.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:47]:

Oh, yeah. A yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's yeah. He's a

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:49]:

even I'm not saying he has exposure to him because he doesn't have exposure to him in his job. So Right. I wanna be accurate.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:55]:

A Right.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:56]:

He doesn't have exposure to him in his job, but he's friends with him, so he knows what the job is. And so I was like, I hear what you're saying, and that's valid criticism. A But the reason why I start my interviews with the people that we have on with is what is a Your job, what do you do is because if you don't know what that job is

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:19]:

Even if someone gives you the steps, how can you know if you wanna do it or not?

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:23]:

Exactly. Yeah. So we have to define our terms first, and we have to be exposed a To what these jobs are, we have to know that these jobs exist, and then you have to go and find out what these jobs do, a What you have to do to get them, how to get there. Right? It's a very, very logical and clear path. And maybe a His feedback is valid from a content creation perspective. Maybe. I'm not sure. I'm not a great a Content creator myself. But the reason why I start my interviews the way that I do normally, especially if it's a new career that's never been a expose on this podcast, like for Jean presales engineer. I always start with what is this job.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:10]:

I will just say you are exposed to a lot of different types of jobs. Like, you speak to a lot of different people with a lot of different jobs. And so that is, like I said, valid criticism because all criticism is valid. Right? But you yourself have quite a deeper understanding of vocational creativity because you're just exposed to a lot of different jobs. And so if you don't know what it is, then a lot of people are not gonna know what it is, you know? And so it all comes down to knowing what the words mean. It all comes down to knowing the vocabulary. What is that? Why? Because you can't know if you wanna do it if you don't know what it is.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:44]:

Yeah. Knowing vocabulary is helpful. A Knowing the definitions of these job titles, like, what are their job responsibilities is helpful. Learning their duties is also helpful. A But the first thing that we have to do is we have to be exposed to what they are. And so that's what the vocational creativity thing is to loop it back around. A It is an exercise that you can do with your kids very, very simply. The best way to explain what it is a is to just go through an example of how to do it. You're gonna look at a product or service in your own life, a And then you are going to dissect all of the jobs that made that product or service possible. A A really, really simple example is when you're driving down the street, looking at whatever it is that you're looking at and a Seeing, okay, I see a billboard. What are the jobs that are necessary to put that billboard up? A Okay. Well, there are the people that actually hang the billboards. There are the people that design the billboards. There are people that print the billboards.

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:56]:

People that write the words that go on the billboards.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:59]:

Exactly. They are the people that figure out which areas a billboard should go in, a I know the people that buy and sell the land of that billboard. There are people that buy and sell billboard real estate a The deal with the contracts. The list goes on and on and on.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:19]:

And it can get more granular than that too. I mean, let's just say you're watching Netflix with your with your kids and the, boom, boom, the Netflix sound comes on. Somebody designed that sound. It's their job to make sounds. That's a job. That's a that's career that people have. Right? And you can teach your kids about Foley artists, and then you could probably go on YouTube and watch a documentary about Foley artists. I am sure. And then you can say, did you know that it was someone's job to film this document? It can just go on and on and on. Like, you could ride this loop forever because it just keeps going further and further and further. But if you just bring this practice into your daily life, like when you're checking out at the grocery store. You know? You just point out to your kids like, yeah. This frozen pizza is a little chef that's on it. Somebody designed this. That's their whole job is to design these things. A and then there's somebody that sells them to different companies. Right? And just teaching them that there's work everywhere. There's the ability for them to do something a that they wanna do everywhere. There's the ability for them to earn a living everywhere. And so what that does is it sets the tone for their whole life, really. A because one, they're never gonna feel trapped if they always think that way. Oh, I could do that. I could do that. Right? Because it's very American to say, like, you can do anything you want. Right, which is why you and I told people that for such a long time. But what we don't do is tell them what they can do, and that's the issue.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:43]:

A Yeah. I think the issue is the lack of exposure like I was talking about. It's not being exposed to these things and not being exposed to what these jobs are, a And that is what vocational creativity is about, and that's the problem that it solves. And so if you're able to do this every day or a Every other day or as often as possible, and you start them as young as 10, 11 years old, where they are able to think about these types of things. A By the time that they get to 16, 17, 18 years old, you will have a really good basis a of your job encyclopedia, your job bank that they have is a Huge. It's massive. And then they don't have to think about, oh, well, I don't know what to do. Well, there's a 1000000 jobs that I could do. A Right. And so that's the 1st layer. The 1st layer is gaining exposure to those things. And a Like you said, you can go into so many different avenues and fields. You can take this so many different ways, like the Netflix Documentary example. I mean, just on that one sound, you can just think about, okay. Well, you know, there's, like, contract managers that have to be like, well, is this sound copywritten. Do we have to pay royalties out to this artist who made this? How many times are we gonna play this thing? How often a Are we going to change this out, or are we gonna rebrand those types of things? Even from one little thing, one element a of a much greater picture you can do an infinite amount of things, and it just opens your mind up to a The different jobs that are out there.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:26]:

This also will really help later in life too. Because if you build this habit and this mentality early in life, your kids are much less likely to get stuck. If they lose their jobs, they can find another type of work. A if they wanna move up or around at the current job that they have, it's much easier because they can see things that other people cannot see. And that is a superpower.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:48]:

A If you get curious about these things, right, the next step, we have exposure. We have this big list of jobs. We have this big encyclopedia of jobs out there. A The next thing is gonna be like, okay. Well, how do I get those jobs? Right? What are the responsibilities of those jobs? And so, a Okay. You go and you start looking up different jobs, and you'd be like, what do they do? Oh, they do this. They do this. So for your kids, if you know 1, like a window washer and it's pretty simple, a Like, you're pretty sure that you can explain that job really, really easily, then, okay, you don't have to go to the Internet, but for something that like, what other jobs are there? You go look up other jobs, and then you're like, okay. Well, what does a media buyer look like? Right? Like, what does a billboard lot salesman a duties look like.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:43]:

Yeah. How does their workday look? How much do

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:45]:

they make? Exactly.

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:46]:

What do they need in order to

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:48]:

do that? And just a Slowly, if you do this over years, do this slowly. Like, oh, remember with this? Yeah. A These are the job responsibilities of this. This is what you would do. I think, you know, they're kids, so a couple of lines, really. But a Just being like, oh, you can do that. Putting up billboards, you're gonna have to climb a ladder.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:10]:

We just saw some people doing it the other day. And if you get really lucky, I'll say you'll see somebody doing it, and you can just say, outlook. There it is. But if if not, you can just look it up. I'm sure there's a video on YouTube of somebody doing that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:23:19]:

Yeah. And that's a great idea is taking the jobs and a things that they're interested in and then just looking up YouTube videos of this job. And I guarantee a It is on YouTube somewhere. Even for the most esoteric jobs, somebody has made a video about a What it is and the daily duties. Guarantee.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:42]:

In that same vein, someone had done a day in the life of there's a spring in Florida. I think it's called Clearwater Spring in Florida that has the oldest professional mermaid show in the country. And a so there's actually a bunch of girls whose job it is to be professional mermaids. That's what they do. Like, they practice really long breath holds, and they do all these tricks and stuff like that. But that's their job. And so it took you through a day in the life of what their work looks like, which was super cool because you just don't really you don't really think about anything like that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:11]:

Yeah. That's a great example. And then the last thing is a If you are feeling the crunch whether or not you're an adult or whether or not you're talking to somebody that's a little bit older, your child is a 17, 18 years old, and you didn't wanna start with things that you just see somewhere. You can start with what they a do for work or what you do for work right now, and you can be like, okay. Well, I am a bartender. A What do I use on a daily basis? Right? So you use your jigger. You use your shaker tins. You use your strainer, keg handles.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:48]:

Yeah, I mean, use liquor, so use a liquor distributor.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:51]:

Right. Exactly. I mean, there's so many things that you can think about. It's like I said, it's literally infinite. And so that is a way to get started if you wanna be more directed about it. You just start with something you're familiar with, something that you a Already do for work if you wanna stay in a similar industry or you think about, okay. Well, I want to work in tech. A This is a very, very common one. I wanna work in tech, but I don't know what to do. Well, that's gonna be tough.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:21]:

A there's a lot of things there.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:22]:

So many things.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:24]:

Almost everything. So

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:26]:

the thing that you do a is you start with something that you use that is tech, whatever tech means to you. A You know, think about, like, for example, one of your apps on your phone. Well, somebody has to design the app logo. A Somebody has to design once you press in the app, what it looks like. Right? The user interface is what they call it. A Right. And somebody has to design whenever you download a new app, they always want you to create an account. A Somebody has to design every single one of those pages.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:06]:

Someone has to write the copy. Someone has to run paid ads. It's very likely the app is tied to a website. And so you can look at the website and see what the software does. You can look into that and see what careers are associated with that because, guarantee. There's project managers. There's buyers. There's accountants. There's social media managers. There's marketers. There's everything.

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:24]:

Yep. Absolutely. A Somebody has to lock down your username and password once you create 1. Somebody has to deal with that security. Somebody has to deal with the databases Once you input data and it stores data, they have to figure all of that out. And that is just an example of a One thing that you would wanna go into. And then once you've exhausted that list and you can't think of any other ideas, well, then you move on to something else. And then you're like, okay. A Then you identify with your kid or yourself if you're doing it for you. You identify the things that you are interested in. And then once again, you go down the same rubric that I use when I interview people, which is you're now that you're exposed to what this is, you figure out a What the job duties are. Does that sound like something that you wanna do? What do they get paid? What does the day to day look like? Is this remote? Is this in office? A Things like that. Once you're like, okay. Well, these 5 jobs seem really, really cool. Well, what do you have to do to get those jobs? You a You do this thing called how to find a job backwards, which we don't have time to go into that right now, but I will put links to everything in the show notes, degreefree.c04/podcast a of how to do it, but a quick sum up of how to do it is you look at job descriptions for these 5 different jobs, a And then you see which the same skills keep coming up, keep coming up, keep coming up, and then you go after those skills. A In a nutshell, once again, I will put links to things that will help you with that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:27:55]:

But we really hope that this helped you because Ryan and I are very passionate about vocational creativity and the need for everyone to practice it, but especially with children because it's easiest for them to pick up as a habit. And teaching them that as a skill early on, it will just kick in later in life. It will help them to see opportunities that other people do not see. And it's really gonna help your kids specifically know what options are open to them, but also feel like they can follow those options when they see them.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:25]:

Yeah. A I know that a lot of people have a lot of questions when it comes to kids and everything like that with how to guide them and what to do because a You're looking at the college system, and you're saying to yourself, I don't know if it's worth it anymore. A Right. Or you're even further from that decision, and you're saying, you know what? My child isn't going to college, and it's for a myriad of reasons. Right? It could be a That you can't afford it, which is very, very reasonable. It could be that you don't want them to go. A It could be that they don't wanna go, whatever the reason is. You know, people are really struggling with this and they have a lot of questions. A And so if you have questions, please leave them down in the YouTube comments. We will take a look, and we will try to answer as much as we can. Hopefully, we can a Maybe compile them and make an episode about it. And then, usually, our ask is gonna be sign up for the newsletter. Go to degreefree.c0forward/newsletter and sign up for a free weekly newsletter, but I'm not gonna ask that today. I really want people to be helped by this framework because I know that it can help a lot of people because it has already helped a lot of people. A If you could do us a favor and share this with a friend or somebody that is going through a This situation where they have a child that is 16, 17, 18 years old or younger, a And they are thinking about different ways of how they can be degree free.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:56]:

Yes. We really want other people to know what their options are, and we definitely don't want them to be like Ryan's friend who doesn't listen to the degree podcast. So make sure that you love your friends and you share

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:10]:

the degree podcast with them. Yeah. A Hopefully I

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:13]:

would laugh because he would hear this, but he won't hear it. So it's fine.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:16]:

He will not hear this. Hopefully, it wasn't a snore fest. A But, yeah, leave your comments on YouTube, and that's pretty much it for this week, guys.

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