How to Get a Job You Want Without a College Degree - Ep. 9

Ryan: Aloha guys! And welcome back to Degree Free. We are your hosts, Ryan, and Hannah Maruyama. On this podcast, we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating getting work, building businesses and making money. We'll tell you how to make it happen. No degree needed.

Hannah: Hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening. If you've listened to past episodes and you want to know how to do this, you want to know how to be degree free and how to apply for jobs and get work and make money. We did make a guide. It is on our website at degreefreenetwork.com. You can go ahead and buy it there.

That'll also sign you up for our email list and you can get this newsletter we're about to be putting out. And if you do, if you're not ready to grab the guide or you don't feel like you need it yet, you can just take notes on these episodes. And we're going to tell you everything anyway. So if you want it all in one place, it's on the website.

If you don't then keep listening.

Ryan: Absolutely. So let's just get into today's topic today. Today, we're talking about how to get a job you want without a degree. Very actionable. This is pretty. It's funny because we get this question a lot or people ask us how to get a job without a degree. How do you get it?

Like, how do I get this job? I want this job, but it says degree required, or it doesn't whatever the requirements say, but like, how do I get this job without a degree? And then we tell them, and then they're like, that's it like, yeah, pretty much. It's pretty simple. This is all pretty simple stuff that we're going to be talking about here.

Might not be easy. Definitely simple. Anybody can do this. Yeah. Anybody?

Hannah: This question is my jam. I love this question because the best way to get what you want as far as jobs go is to not give up. People apply one time for one job. They don't get it. And then they just throw up their hands and they say, there's no jobs.

I couldn't get any jobs. Or they applied for five jobs and they applied one time. Dude come on. Talent works is is a site that gathers information on this. And they have estimated it takes between 100-200 applications to get a job interview, just to put in context. It's not this non-discussion about whether or not that's right or wrong or anything like that.

This is how it is. If you were applying for five jobs one time each and then you are woe is me because you can't get a job. That is your fault. You did not take it seriously enough. And you did not apply enough. It's a numbers game and you are not putting down the numbers. You have to treat that like a job if you want to get a job.

Ryan: Yeah. So I think the key here is basically harassment. As funny as that is, as silly as that sounds.

Hannah: Don't give up.

Ryan: Just don't give up.

Hannah: You got to act like a crazy ex-girlfriend like, so basically what you got to do, or some kid that like wants a girl to go to a prom with them and she won't go and he just doesn't give up.

You have to be like a dog with a bone. If there's a company and they have a job and you're like, whoa, I would be perfect for that job. I would love that job. And you've done research about the company and you see everything and you're like, yeah. Okay. I want to apply. But, and you get through the whole degree thing and then you apply once and you never apply again.

Oh, they don't want me. No, they probably didn't see it because you're not being persistent enough. If you want the job apply to the job every single day until they call you, it's all you have to do is push a button. It's going to take you 20 minutes, even if it's one of those prefilled applications where it cancels everything out and you have to redo it.

20 minutes a day and you have to do that consistently.

The second point here is keep applying until they tell you to stop. Because the point, if they're not telling you, please stop applying for this job. You haven't applied enough to get it. If you really want. Act like you want it, which is you're going to keep applying until they tell you.

Please stop doing that. It's getting a little crazy, a good example of this. This is something I stumbled on early in my life in Savannah, where I grew up, there was a bar that I wanted to work at. I thought it looked super cool. I really wanted to work there, but I was 18. So you can bartend in the state of Georgia when you're 18 years old, but you're not allowed to drink obviously.

And so not all bars are super friendly to having 18 year old bartenders for obvious reasons, but I really wanted to work in this specific bar. And so I applied to this job 11 times. 11 times, and I'm not talking, I didn't email, or I think I did. I'm talking, I physically walked into this bar 11 separate times and handed them my resume printed on a piece of paper in a folder.

I did that 11 times when I was 18. Now this was over the span of it was months. It was like seven months that I did this. And I was like, I really wanna work here. Hi, I'm back again. Here's my resume. Hi, it's me again. Here's my resume. It's ridiculous. It's laughable. I probably should have stopped doing it, but at the end of the day, guess where I ended up working at that bar.

They hired me and I ended up working there for on and off for eight years. I had continuous, I was continuously on their books employed for eight years. So the moral of the story is if you want something. Don't give up. If you've emailed in an application and you don't get a result, then go on LinkedIn and find the recruiting manager and find their phone number and call.

If you want to get hired at the company, find the CEO's number and, or their email and send them an email and said, Hey, I found this for your company. I really want to do this. I'm excited to work in this department. Thank you so much for your time. If you really want to work there, then you go in and take HR box of donuts and your resume, and say, here you go. I really want to apply for this job. There was a TikTok I saw the other day of this guy. He was saying he couldn't get a job in finance. He wanted to work in the banking industry. And so he went downtown into New York city and he handed out his paper resume in front of all the big banks a week later, the guy's got a job.

Why? Because nobody is persistent anymore. The email one time. And then they give up.

Ryan:  That's definitely what we hear. And I think a lot of it too, is what you said is persistence. And then also you want to be, you want to make sure that what the job is about. You want to make sure that you're obviously you tailor your resume, you write a cover letter, all of that stuff, but then also showing the initiative.

So exactly like what that guy did. Actually go into a place like actually go in there and hand somebody your resume. If you can get past the gatekeeper, if you can actually sit down with the person that's supposed to be hiring had handed it.

Hannah: Sometimes being nice to the gatekeeper is even more effective.

Ryan: Absolutely. And it's something as simple as, and even if you don't want to do that, if that's too much like getting past the gatekeeper, maybe as you said, bring just bring some food.

Hannah: It's not illegal. It's not wrong. It's to make you remember it's to make them remember who you are.

Ryan: Bring some cookies or something like that, whatever drop off some cookies, drop off your resume.

And thank you. I saw the, I saw it online. I S I did apply online, but then now I'm here and it just shows people that you want the job.

Hannah: Yeah. You're not going to weird anybody out. They're not going to be mad. They're not going to, they're not going to care. They're just going to remember this person was so excited about working with them, that you brought them food.

That's it you've if you've ever worked in a job, you know that if somebody did that, everybody would be like, oh, whoa, who brought these? Why did they do that? Oh, that's so cool. Oh, I shouldn't, you know what? I'm going to go down and make sure I'm not joking. That's the effect that food has on people.

I think a lot of people are afraid though. They're afraid of being in polite, you're being rude. And I also, I can already hear the COVID but it's COVID they don't care wear a mask, abide by whatever procedures are in that building or in the area take the food. The people that are not worried about that are worried about the food.

Won't eat the food, the people who want the food will eat the food and they'll have your resume. And it doesn't, it's not gonna, it's not me. It's not a magic bullet. It's well, it's not a magic doughnut. Not every time you do that, will they call you back? But they will remember who you are. If you go back in there much later, or you applied to the same job later, when it opens up again and you take, and again, you do the same thing.

They're going to remember who you are. And remember, remembering that you're familiar is can sometimes be the way in.

Ryan: Yeah, it could be enough. Just the fact that they remember. Literally be just because everybody else they might hire you just because everybody else not, they might hire you just because nobody else came in and showed initiative.

And nobody came face-to-face and actually shook hands and say, Hey, or fist bumps or whatever, and said, Hey, my name is Ryan. I want to work here. Nice to meet. And then all right let's give it Ryan kid a shot. Everybody else, is all the same. One of the things that we stress about to people is that okay, if there's your dream job, absolute dream job, and you want to get that specific job and you keep applying and you keep applying and they keep turning you down okay, that's fine.

Keep applying. But maybe figure out why they keep, why they're turning you down.

Hannah: Or take a lower entry level job at the same place.

Ryan: But figure out why. So first before you do that, figure out why they're turning you down and then, okay. It's because I don't have enough experience. What kind of experience would you like me to have?

And that instead of taking a lower pay job, but it's at that same time. Maybe you take a lower paying job in another company to get that. So that, that certain experience, maybe you work in a completely different industry to get that experience in order for you to go back to that job and apply.

And like Hannah was saying these tips they're simple. They're not, there's no silver bullet. This isn't going, this is not guaranteed to get you that one single job that you have. That being said, will it get you? Will it get you a job? Yeah, it definitely will.

Hannah: No one is going to bang down your door to give you one of these jobs.

If you want it, you have to ask for it. They're not going to, if you're applying for, if you're not applying for some extremely high level, like recruiter or something in a really in demand, specialized field where there's not a lot of other people, they're not going come and bang door down to you. You need to pretend like you want the job act like you want the job because otherwise no, one's gonna, no, one's going to be excited to give it to you for one, it's just true.

As much as people want to talk about it's really down to the most qualified. What it's not is down to the person who shows them off the most effort and who gets along with the people who are hiring the best. That's just the, that's just a fact It, this goes back to something we talked about a lot, which is having sales experience really helps because you'll understand how to make yourself memorable.

And honestly, just try to connect with these people because you need them to give you something and you, what you need them to give you as a chance. And if you want a chance, you have to ask for the chance you have to go in and say, hi, I'm I really want this interview. You're not going to get it unless you asked for it.

And if they didn't give it to you the first time you asked, you're going to keep asking, it's the same thing that you would do with anything else in your life that you care about. If you don't get it the first time, but you really want it, you'll just keep asking for it.

Ryan: One of the things that I did want to talk about too, and we've touched on it many times, but we're going to keep beating this dead horse until people start doing it. And is that just because it says college degree required doesn't mean you need a college degree. Go ahead, hit the apply button. You don't have to have a college degree. Still tailor your resume for that job, do all the right things, but you can still apply.

Don't self eliminate. If you self eliminate, you're definitely not getting that job.

Hannah: 100% positive. You will not get that job.

Ryan: 100% There's no way that you're going to get that job. If you don't apply to it. If it says college degree required and you fit most of it, or do you think you can fit most of it or you're interested in the field.

Hannah: Or you think you can learn it?

Ryan: You want to learn it. You can convince somebody. You're convinced that you can convince somebody that they can teach you it. And that you're a quick learner. Go ahead. Apply to the job. It's not against the law. It's not against the rules. It's not wrong. If they give you a shot, boom, you got the job.

That's it just hit the apply. Hit the apply button. I, and that is something that we want to stress all the time, just because it says college degree required is not, that is not a stop sign. Good. Keep rolling. On through. Yeah.

Hannah: Disregard in applications, disregard experience requirements and degree requirements.

Ignore them. They don't serve you if you don't have those things. And the. It doesn't really matter if you have them, if they call you back and they give you an interview and if they like you in the interview and they give you the job, obviously it didn't matter that much. And this kind of segues into the fact that most jobs are filled informally and it's not by a small amount.

It is estimated from data from quite a few sources like NPR, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN. They have estimated that 80% of jobs, 80%. Are filled informally. And that means they're not filled through job listings. So the ones you're seeing are 20%, those are 20% of jobs. Now what this means, I think because Harvard also did a study where they realized that that they use the example of production managers, which are like mid-level mid-level management mid to high level management and of these production managers.

67% of the job descriptions required a college degree and a certain amount of experience. But mainly that the college degree was the focus of the study. And they found that when they found when they looked at actually, how many production managers had college degrees, guess how many it was.

Ryan: I'm not sure.  30%?

Hannah: Of the employed production managers, 16% of them had college degrees.

Ryan: I believe it.

Hannah: Which fits directly if it's squarely into the fact that 20% of those formal job listings have degree requirements and 16%, it just, I just think it's interesting because it's within that 20% range, right? The implication being that the other 80% are filled by people who don't have degrees.

The other 84% are filled by people who don't have degrees informally.

Ryan: Possibly informally. You're not sure.

Hannah: But given the numbers, I think it's an interesting guess that's an interesting observation. They may not be correlated, but I think I do think that is, I do think that's very interesting.

The main reason I'm stating this is because you need to not be afraid about applying for these jobs because behind the scenes informally, there are a lot of people being hired for the same type of job that you're applying for without a college degree and without the required experience.

So just disregard it like Ryan said it's not a stop sign, literally ignore it.

Ryan: Yeah. And I think also the key here is just say, it's just seeing. It's just, when you think about that, you think about if 80%, if that's true, 80% of jobs are filled informally without a job listing or that also means as well.

For some bigger companies, they have to post the job. And, but a lot of times the positions already filled. So if you're talking major companies, they have to post the job listing. Oh, okay. We're looking for, we're looking for whatever we're looking for, a production manager, we're looking for an engineer, whatever.

And they have to post it to give everybody a fair shot, but they've already filled that position in their mind. And like basically in practice.

Hannah: They've already told the person.

Ryan: Exactly. Boom you got this job. I just have to, we just have to post it. We'll hire you. Just, you have to apply to it.

And then we'll close the listing and we'll grab your application. You're hired. So assuming this is even remotely accurate. You're talking about the vast majority of jobs getting filled informally. And so when here, when you, so what that means is that when you're finally looking at a job listing and you're like, wow, look at all these jobs, but that's 20% of the entire job market, so it's basically to say, this is not to discourage you. It's to encourage you. It's to tell you look jobs. If you're coming from the outside, you are fighting an uphill battle. If you're coming from the outside and you're fighting an uphill battle because they don't know you, that you have to introduce yourself, you have to get in the door, you have to be memorable and doing those things, applying 11 times to be a bartender at a place like that's going to make you memorable, bringing in cookies for the receptionist or the secretary or whatever, whoever's or the security guard whoever's sitting at the front door going to take your resume. That's going to make you memorable. And that is. It's knowing those statistics. And then you're like, okay, now I know that I have to get a leg up now because I'm fighting an uphill battle.

Hannah: Pick up a sword, figure it out.

You gotta do some work. Even with what I think about job applications and the way people need to apply that figure is staggering. 80%. That's huge. That's huge. That's so much. And to me that just, it's just another, it's just another layer of dude. Anybody can do it.

Anybody can do it. I really believe that. I believe that if you want a job and you apply enough and you do things that are a little bit different than normal. Oh. And sending thank you notes. That's another thing. If you go in and you take the box of donuts and you hand in the resume and you've talked to the receptionist, briefly send the receptionist a thank you note.

Send a thank you note to the person who you were trying to give the resume to who you didn't even see.

Ryan: A handwritten thank you note.

Hannah: Yes. Yes. Again, people will say, I've see all these. I see all these handwritten notes are so like the thing of the past. No, they're not. No, they're not why, because nobody sends them.

So you're gonna be the one person this entire year that sent that person. A thank you note. It's very unusual people. Remember it. They do not forget. Yeah, I've done that before. And it always leaves a good taste in people's mouth. Why? Because it shouldn't, you took the time out of your day to do that. And you did a thing, it's a followup task to the original task, which was you took something in to give them.

So when you do finally get your shot. I will say something you need to remember is not meeting the job description does not mean that you are not an equally valid candidate to anybody they would have interviewed. Also you are not less. You're not worth less financially. You're not monetarily worth less because you have less experience.

You're not monetarily worth less because you don't have a college degree.

Ryan: They're going to tell you that though.

Hannah: They are.

Ryan: It's their job to tell you that if they do. So this is basically saying you buy. So this is basically saying, so this is the lie portion of how to get a job that you want without a degree.

This is all last segment of it. And this is once you're in the room. Once you've had the interview, once you've now you're sitting down with the hiring manager and you were talking about salary. And what we see happen a lot of times is that because people feel like they fit only 50% of the job listing requirements.

What happens a lot of times is that the hiring manager, whoever it is, they're going to rip you a new one and try to bid you low. And basically it's kinda it's kinda when you're buying and selling. It's like buying and selling a car.

Hannah: They're going to low ball you.

Ryan: Right? It's in your best interest. So if you're buying the car, It's in your best interest to point out all  the little dents and dings, the car might, the car might be pristine, but you're still going to pay, literally it literally might have just rolled right off of the lot.

And now you're looking at it and you're like it depreciated. And since you rolled over  since you came those that 30 feet off the lot, the tires aren't as good here. And like he, didn't, he kick it a little bit and it's it's either there, or they're a little deflated.

I'm going to take depreciation off obviously, cause it's not new. And then, I'm going to, and then, you know what, you paid 30 grand for it. Here's 15, it'd be like, what the hell? You know what I mean? What are you smoking?

Hannah: That's very savvy. Of course you don't go in and give you don't go in and give. If you think you can get the same thing for a lower price, why wouldn't you?

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: And especially because in the past, if they have hired people like that, which at the point that they're hiring people who don't have degrees or the right experience, they've done it before this isn't a first time occurrence.

They are going to. They know and not in a malicious way, they're trying to save their company money, which is probably part of their job. So what they're trying to do is they're trying to get a bargain. If they've got you in here and they've interviewed you and you are now at the point where you were talking about money with these people, you are valuable because you got yourself.

You did that through your effort. You're so interesting that they're sitting here talking to you and then I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to, to hype people up too much, but I'm just saying you have value as an, you have equal value to somebody else that they would hire to do that job.

Why? Because if they give it to you, then that's true. Do not let people low ball you, you are worth the same amount as anybody else who they would have hired for that job. It doesn't matter if you need to learn. It doesn't matter if you're new at it. It doesn't matter if you don't have the degree. It doesn't matter if you don't have experience, you'll learn.

That's why you're there. So you need to make sure that when you go in, how much you're worth.

Ryan: Yep, absolutely. I maybe, yeah, know how much, how much you're worth and then just not having a number that you're okay with getting and then stick to that number if they don't, if they don't, if they don't meet it, yeah. Leave him leave or, I then, or what happens a lot of times too, if it is a, if it's an okay offer, especially if you're not employed, you could just take the job. As well, you could take the job, I think continue to keep looking for jobs.

Hannah: And then leverage it into a better offer.

Ryan: That is definitely something that we see happen all the time.

Take the job, learn, unfortunately maybe you got to get a second job, get a second job support, support your family, do whatever you gotta do, but at least take the time to learn. This is all just to say that I it happens too. We hear it all the time is that I don't have a degree.

So I took less money or they offered me this. So I just took it, okay. Whatever, at least you got a job, but if you're in that room and it says that they're going to pay the person that has all of these requirements, they're going to pay him X amount of dollars. And then you own, but then the hiring manager sits you down and said, look, I would pay this person that fits a hundred percent of this X amount of dollars for you, we're willing to hire you, but you only fit 50% of this.

So I'm going to, I'm going to say that's X divided by two. You know what I mean? So instead of a hundred thousand dollars a year or whatever it I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay you $50,000 a year or 75. And then it's up to you to know if that, if it's the right situation.

Hannah: At what point and that is going to depend on your goal, which is it employment?

Is it to. Because those are different. If your goal is to learn and get experience, and you're willing to take a pay cut in order to get that professional experience, because it is better to get it through employment than it is to get it through education, go to the business and work and you'll learn.

It's also the best way for you to jump into a higher paying job because people make money when they move companies.

Ryan: Generally speaking.

Hannah: Yeah. Not always, but most of the time.

Ryan: Generally speaking company hopping will. Is how you increase your salary. Generally speaking, because if you, for the most part, the vast majority of companies, if you stay with the company for years and years, which is the old school way, if you stay at the company for years and years, you are going to get your standard 3% inflation increase a year.

Very standard. That's super duper standard and that's old school, you sit around for you, you stay in your office and you do good work and maybe you don't move out. Maybe you do. But if you don't move obviously to get your 3% extra a year at the end of 40 years, you're going to get your golden watch or golden bracelet or whatever.

And yeah, but if you want to, if you want to start increasing making large movements in your money, if you want to make large increases in your income potential, usually it's going to, it's going, it's leveraging what you've already learned and then going to another company doing the same thing or doing something different.

And so I guess, this, I guess that's kind of everything. That's the most important parts of it. And like I said like we've been talking about. If you're so fixated on what a lot of people get fixated on is one job. Like I want to do just this. All right.

There's no guarantee that you're ever going to get this job and for whatever reason, they're not hiding right now, first thing, figure out why they're not hiring you. Maybe it's not experience. Maybe it's not, maybe it's education, probably not, but whatever it is, figure, figure out what it is.

And then go and get another job. Go get experience in that field. Whether or not that's a lower position in the company. Do you think you can move up to that or whether or not it's another position, an equal position in another company doing something similar whatever it is, figure out the why of why you don't have that job and then tool your career around that.

Hannah: Yep.

Ryan: Okay. Now a lot of times, if you're just thinking about how to get a job without a degree, this is the way to do it.

Hannah: Yep.

Ryan: This is it. And it's super simple. It's not easy. We understand this. This stuff is not easy. Yeah.

Hannah: It's very, it's very it's. I get why people don't do it. One, because they're not taught to two because they're scared.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And it's like totally valid. Yeah. And so we're not reinventing the wheel here. There's nothing new about anything that we're saying at all. Nothing revolutionary. We didn't, nothing revolutionary. We're basically at the core essence of this whole thing is basically act like you want it and harass people.

Hannah: Yep. Not legal advice.

Don't actually do that because I don't want to hear about us telling somebody to go stand outside. Somebody.

Ryan: Just jokes folks.

Hannah: Just jokes folks. Don't actually harass people who you want to hire you. That's not really effective, but being persistent is yeah, absolutely. And doing out of the box things, one story I always tell is I read somewhere that Sarah Blakely, when she was applying, she's the founder of Spanx, she's billionaire super smart lady.

And very good at getting people's attention, obviously. And she, I read a story once that when she was applying for jobs, She took one shoe and she put it in a box and she put her resume in the box. And then she put a note in the box that said, just trying to get my foot in the door. One shoe.

This lady is a genius and she boxes thing up and she sends it off to the company. And you're, if you've ever worked at an office and someone's shipped in, if someone FedEx in a single shoe with a note that said, just trying to get my foot in the door, The HR rep or the receptionist would have been walking around with that shoe in their hand all day.

And I think people like, people are like, oh, that wouldn't work. But then they've never like they've even worked in an office and they don't realize how that would be the most interesting thing that had happened in like months. You know what I mean? That people would be laughing about it. People would be talking about it, and the goal is to do something that's memorable. Get their attention if you want their attention. Why? Because once you have their attention, you can ask them for what you want. And you have to ask if you're going to get it at all.

Ryan: Yep. Definitely. And so get their attention. Be memorable, whether or not that's shipping shoes or bringing cookies, be memorable, super simple.

Apply to more jobs apply. Don't stop until they tell you, stop just don't be irritating. But if you're, if you really want that. Keep applying.

Hannah: A lot of people were like, how do I know if I'm being irritating? I'm really, they will tell you that you're irritating. Don't worry about that. Don't worry about that.

Let them do that. You don't do that. You just do it until they are irritated. That's it? That's your only job.

Ryan: And then just remember, as motivation that most jobs they're, they are filled informally. They're not even listed. Most jobs are not even listed.

Now, that you have major competence.

Hannah: You're competing against people that are already there, that they already know, and that they obviously already trusted enough to hire.

Ryan: Yeah. And so that's just motivation to be even more memorable to make sure your resume is hyper-targeted to make sure it's super relevant, to make sure that you tailor your experience to that, of that job.

Make sure that you're doing stuff. That other people are not going to do. Sending handwritten thank you notes instead of sending it an email, everybody sends emails out is everybody sends email. It's cheap, it's free, it's easy, go buy, 10, thank you cards from the dollar store and then set and send it out.

Simple stuff. And then the last thing is once you're in the negotiation, Once you're actually there in front of people. Just know your worth.

Hannah: Don't undervalue yourself.

Ryan: Don't let them don't let them well you either, just, you got to remember, this is difficult. This is difficult. This is difficult to remember because you feel like they hold all the cards because you need this job.

They need your labor too.

Hannah: That why they're talking to you.

Ryan: It's an economic transaction. You need their money. They need your time. And that's that. That's why you're there.

Hannah: And don't let them buy it for too little.

Ryan: Yeah.

Hannah: Like you can be grateful for being in the room and the opportunity to learn and work for that company and still get the amount of money that you want.

Those two things are not, they're not.

Ryan: Mutually exclusive. .

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. You can't have, you can get both. So can the company can be happy and you can be happy. It's fine.

Ryan: Right on guys that is all for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you guys liked this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving an honest review.

It really helps to get the word out to other people about what we're doing here and about the information that we have.

Hannah: If you would like some more structured help on how to do these things, the tactics we're talking about we have compiled a guide it's available on our website. It's degreefreenetwork.com.

You can buy it there. If not, you can use Google and Reddit it to find out all of this information. And you can also just take notes on the episodes that we've already done. That said we are excited for you folks, especially about this one. Good luck to you out there. We know it's hard, but you can do. Yep.

Ryan: Absolutely. You guys can do it. Just keep it up. Be persistent, be memorable. All right guys, till next time. Aloha!