January 3, 2024

Degree Free Healthcare?!, AI is Taking Over, and the Other 2024 Predictions (DF#130)

Degree Free Healthcare?!, AI is Taking Over, and the Other 2024 Predictions

How Degree Free Candidates are Thriving in Today's Job Market

2024’s gonna be crazy! We got all the predictions that you need to know about in today’s episode. To the rise of Degree Free healthcare, AI taking over the world, and more!

What you’ll learn:

- Explore the concept of down credentialing in medicine, technology, and teaching, and how it has become a viable alternative to a traditional degree.
- Discover the driving factors behind down credentialing in the healthcare industry and the accessibility of online education in the technology field.
- Understand the irrelevance of certain academic courses for job performance and the need for practical knowledge and skills.
- Discuss the need for a shift in mindset, more practical approaches, and predictions of increased small business creation focusing on AI-proof service-based businesses.

Join us as we delve into the idea of 'down credentialing' and its impact on various industries. We emphasize the necessity of practical learning opportunities and predict a shift in business creation towards AI-proof service-based ventures. Wishing all listeners a prosperous 2024!

Enjoy the episode!

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Missed our wild ride through 2023? Catch up on the highlights and key takeaways from our incredible guests, including industry experts like Billy Cosentino and Diana Spencer—listen now and level up your skills on the Degree Free Podcast!

Links and Notes from the Episode

Episode Summary:

In this podcast episode, the conversation highlights the shift in hiring practices in 2023, with companies and states dropping degree requirements for jobs and recognizing the importance of building a portfolio of skills over having a degree. The use of AI is expected to continue growing in 2024, impacting various industries and job roles.

On the topic of down credentialing, Ryan and Hannah predict that this trend will gain momentum in three industries: medicine and healthcare, tech, and teaching. With the aging population and increased demand for healthcare services, vocational training, and practical experience will become accessible pathways to these jobs.

In the tech industry, the convenience and availability of online education make it an attractive alternative to traditional colleges. In the teaching profession, down credentialing may occur due to low pay and inefficiencies in the education system. Hannah expresses her belief in colleges offering a la carte education, where students can choose specific classes instead of completing full degree programs.

She criticizes colleges for not adapting to changing needs and being greedy. On the other hand, Ryan believes colleges will continue to thrive due to strong marketing. They end with optimism for the Degree Free movement gaining momentum and leading to increased recognition and hiring by companies.

Connect with Ryan:

Connect With Hannah:

Action Steps & Recommendations:

  1. Encourage the development of vocational training programs and practical experiences in medicine and healthcare, tech, and teaching industries to provide alternative pathways to traditional four-year degrees.
  2. Increase the accessibility and convenience of structured online education in the tech industry to cater to the needs of candidates seeking tech skills.
  3. Promote the value of building a portfolio of skills to showcase job-specific abilities rather than relying solely on formal credentials.
  4. Support and expand paid teacher apprenticeships and practical training programs to attract and retain teaching candidates.
  5. Encourage small business creation, particularly in AI-proof service-based industries, among Gen Z to foster entrepreneurship.
  6. Boost business buying and transfer to support retiring business owners and ensure continuity in the market.
  7. Advocate for colleges to offer a la carte education options, allowing individuals to choose specific classes they need or are interested in, rather than completing full degree programs.


  • 00:00:00 - Building a portfolio is important for setting yourself apart
  • 00:01:59 - Skills matter more than degrees, according to LinkedIn CEO
  • 00:07:30 - Degree Free phrase gains recognition and usage by notable media outlets
  • 00:12:48 - Down credentialing will accelerate in three industries: medicine and healthcare, tech, and teaching.
  • 00:14:11 - In medicine and healthcare, the aging population will drive the need for down credentialing.
  • 00:15:29 - Teaching is another industry where down credentialing will be necessary due to low pay and a failing system.
  • 00:23:09 - The shift from college to online learning in the tech industry
  • 00:24:52 - The importance of building a portfolio in the tech industry
  • 00:28:24 - Predictions for an increase in small business creation and a drop in college enrollment
  • 00:34:16 - Colleges should offer a la carte classes
  • 00:35:24 - Colleges should focus on specific interests
  • 00:37:35 - Colleges are hesitant to unbundle their services

References, Resources Mentioned & Suggested Reading:

Episode Transcript
Please enjoy this transcript or our episode!

Please note the transcript may have a few errors. We're human. It can be hard to catch all the errors from a full length conversation. Enjoy!

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:00]:
The thing that they all said was building a portfolio, and that's what matters going forward. That is what people need to see. That is what going to set you apart from everybody else. It's show me. Don't tell me that you can do it. I don't care if you can tell me. Show me that you can do it. Happy new year.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:30]:
Happy new year.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:31]:
Happy new year, everyone. It is great to have you back with Degree Free in 2024, which is crazy to think about.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:38]:
We've been at this for a minute, I will say.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:40]:
Oh, yeah. I'm not talking about that. I'm just thinking, like, crazy. It's 2024.

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:44]:
I know. These years are just spinning.

Ryan Maruyama [00:00:46]:
Yeah. It is 2024. Who knew? Yeah. Who thought this day would come?

Hannah Maruyama [00:00:51]:
Well, I mean, Oh, man. We're just happy to be here folks.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:00]:
Yeah. And I hope everybody had a great New Year's and, had a great celebration. And here we are back at it in 2024. As promised, we are gonna go and complete what we didn't do last week, which is a little bit of our 2023 wrap up. We're gonna wrap up our wrap up quickly so that we can get to the 2024 predictions that we have, it is our 1st episode of the year. We've never done this before, but I think we

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:34]:
We're gonna predict the future.

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:35]:
We are gonna do this going forward because I think it's fun. Maybe our last episode every year is gonna be a wrap up, and then maybe the beginning episode of every year is gonna be predictions. I'm not sure, but I like the idea. So this is episode 1 of 2024, and we are gonna do our predictions later on. So let's wrap up the wrap up.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:57]:

Ryan Maruyama [00:01:58]:
Take it away.

Hannah Maruyama [00:01:59]:
Alright. So significant degree free news that happened in 2023. Ryan Rylandski, the CEO of LinkedIn came out and said that Skills matter more than degrees. Like, basically, just summing up the general feeling that everyone knows is true, which is skills do matter more than Paper because paper is paper and skills are skills.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:19]:
Well, I have never spoken to Ryan Rylanski, but I would like to.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:24]:
Ryan Rylanski? Oh, but

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:26]:

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:27]:
Wanna talk to another Ryan?

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:29]:

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:29]:
Let's make it happen.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:30]:
Let's make it happen. We were actually very close to having Ryan Rylanski

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:35]:
on this podcast. Mutual, potentially, introduction, which, you know what, we just need to chase down. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think, eventually, we will have Ryan Rylanski. And the way that we can have Ryan Rylanski on this podcast is if you share this podcast with a friend.

Hannah Maruyama [00:02:50]:
And especially if your friend is Ryan Rylanski.

Ryan Maruyama [00:02:52]:
Especially if your friend is Ryan Rylanski. But, no, the reason why Ryan Rylanski is saying this, and this is a total guess, is because he has the data and he can see that people are hiring degree free people for jobs that say degree required.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:09]:
I have something later that will prove that. But yep.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:12]:
And the reason why we know this as well is because we've spoken to people, 1, hiring managers, people that work in HR and everything like that. But we've also spoken

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:21]:
CEOs of companies that are privy to this information.

Ryan Maruyama [00:03:24]:
Exactly. To the same type of information that Ryan Murlansky has on his platform. And same thing shows on the other platform that people do not care about degree requirements and having it, to be honest, is foolish. So him saying that is also trying to push getting degree requirements off of job descriptions and therefore, increasing talent pool for all these companies and helping to increase the matching between candidates and job listings and job description, job openings.

Hannah Maruyama [00:03:58]:
The 2nd big point that I really like is Jenny Romerty, the former CEO of IBM, Who I really like. Saying the degree free people perform the exact same as PhDs. That is a direct quote from her. And all of their hair collectively lit on fire.

Ryan Maruyama [00:04:16]:
Yeah. That sort of seems like a nonstatement to me, to be completely honest

Hannah Maruyama [00:04:21]:
I think so too. But what you went on to elaborate and say was that degree free people perform the exact same as PhDs if you give them the same training. So nobody comes into a company trained on how to do the job, because every company's job description is gonna be slightly different. They're gonna have different requirements. So nobody comes into a job Knowing exactly how to do that job, there's an onboarding process for every for all jobs for all companies. And so what she's talking about is when they're Onboard to the same job, they perform the same in the same roles. And not only that, but she's saying this for a similar reason to Ryan Wilansky, which she can see the tide, but the thing that companies are most concerned about is churn. Because churn is what costs them money and time and momentum, So many things.

Hannah Maruyama [00:05:04]:
It just complicates everything. If you can reduce churn, your company can work more efficiently. And degree free people turn over 39% less as found by the Harvard Business Review, which is, I think, a huge reason. So a lot of people with degrees will say that the reason That companies are trying to hire degree for people's because they pay them less. I'm like, no. It's just because they don't leave as much. And so you're reducing churn, which means you are saving money because it's more expensive to hire new people and just keep the ones you already have.

Ryan Maruyama [00:05:32]:
Yeah. So one of the things with churn, and we've covered it before on this podcast, which is it is estimated that It takes an employee 6 months before they are productive in their role when they are initially hired. And so to your point. If you can keep people there for longer, every person that you keep in the job. Year after year, you're saving 6 months worth of productivity, and therefore, 6 months worth of money. And so, yeah, churn is a massive, massive problem because you can't create huge, amazing businesses without people. It's impossible.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:11]:
It's easy to feel like workers are individual people aren't important. Your labor's not important, but it actually is. A great example of this we were just talking about was OpenAI. That was crazy. We'll probably talk about it again in more depth. But, basically, Microsoft Just got acquired all of OpenAI's staff. And they're basically acquiring a company because they acquired all the people. And that is so crazy because the company is the people and the work that they're doing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:38]:
And if you can get the people with the brains that are doing the work, you've basically acquired the company. I don't mean the intellectual property. I mean, the labor and the ability of those people you now have at your disposal.

Ryan Maruyama [00:06:49]:
Yeah. That was a little while ago. That was about a month ago are so but, yeah, it was insane that shakeup that happened.

Hannah Maruyama [00:06:56]:
Insane that they hired them all. But anyway, my third point Was that degree free this year, the phrase degree free, a phrase that you and I invented, has been used In 2023 by Forbes, Business Insider, MSNBC, CNBC, USA Today, and Yahoo News. And then a Bunch of other blogs and, you know, we've got I don't know how many 35,000,000 views across TikTok, and then who knows on other platforms. But it's been a big year.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:28]:
Yeah, it was insane to see all of these people using and referring to people as degree free and the degree free people, degree free movement. It is really awesome, very humbling, and we love it. So as we were talking about before a few weeks ago, keep it up everybody. And if you are struggling to find a word for not having a college degree, you already have it. It's degree free. You're degree free.

Hannah Maruyama [00:07:58]:
Yeah. Welcome to the movement.

Ryan Maruyama [00:07:59]:
What I wanted to say about 2023 has to do with AI. And AI in 2023 was massive. It was a huge year. We saw chat g p t actually become a product. I mean, it was already a product, but then they kind of got their legs underneath them as a product. Well, and then they got all shaken up at the top. And then MidJourney got so much better. And there are so many other companies that have what I call rappers or what other people call rappers on top of the back end that is AI, APIs, and that are building amazing, amazing things.

Ryan Maruyama [00:08:34]:
And so that was a massive, massive trend in 2023. That is definitely going to continue in 2024. And this can start the predictions side of the episode because in 2024 and the use of AI is just gonna get larger and larger, and it's going to eat market share in so many different industries. There are so many people that are gonna be touched by AI and so many jobs that are gonna be changed buy AI. And we did an episode on, like, which jobs are going to be augmented by AI. And so if you want to go back to that episode, I'll put the link the show notes degreefree.c04/podcast.

Hannah Maruyama [00:09:17]:
So my first prediction is that more states are going to drop degree requirements. This is kind of a give me. But as of now, we have Maryland, Utah, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Alaska, and North Carolina have all dropped degree requirements For their states. And my favorite part of this was Utah just really shows how unnecessary these degree requirements were because 98% of Utah's 1,080 different classified jobs now do not require a college degree. They're not posted as requiring a degree, Which just goes to show you that prior to that, 98% of them did not require degrees at all.

Ryan Maruyama [00:09:54]:
I couldn't agree more because I was also a point that I was gonna bring up on this predictions episode, as well as more states and state jobs are going to be repealing and getting rid of their degree, quote, requirements for their jobs.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:12]:
Because your park rangers, your game wardens, your admins, you don't need that. Your librarians don't need that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:18]:
And so many companies as well are going to follow suit too.

Hannah Maruyama [00:10:23]:
It's gonna happen so quickly, and I predict another 20 states during 2024 will drop their degree requirements because now the path has been mapped out. The last Thing I wanna say about this was Maryland worked with our friends at Opportunity at Work, and they vetted on how to vet degree free candidates for state jobs, And the results were immediate from May to August. The number of people without degrees hired by the government increased 41%. That's crazy. It just goes to show how many people a single sentence that was completely in a Sarah were keeping from jobs that they could've had.

Ryan Maruyama [00:10:57]:
A lot of that, I'm sure, had to do with they were not hiring them because they didn't have a degree.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:04]:
Just because legally, it was a state job. And so it was a legal requirement.

Ryan Maruyama [00:11:07]:
What I'm saying. Because it was a state job. It's not like, a private company where it's just whatever they don't actually care, like, just apply anyway. But because it was a state job, there's, like, this is a requirement. You have to have it, which is silly. Obviously, it is.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:21]:
Down credentialing is gonna pick up speed in 2024. Between 2017 and 2019, this was the MC Burning Glass Institute study that we refer to a lot that went over 51,000,000 job listings over the last, like, 15 years, And 46% of mid scale and 31% of high skill occupation experience declines in degree requirements because they're not necessary. And so for everybody that says, oh, they require to go no. They don't. No. They don't. Then the thing is too, the entire time they've been hiring people who were degree free. Now they're just making it official.

Hannah Maruyama [00:11:51]:
And so all it does is it's it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. Because if you say that something requires a degree, people will eliminate themselves from the running. So despite that, there were still people in those jobs. And now that they've removed that, it's just picked up speed, and it's gonna continue to do that, Especially as companies find degree for candidates more attractive than college graduates because they turn over 39% less, And they will churn less, and they will stay longer, which means companies keep momentum and save money. Down credentialing is gonna accelerate in 3 industries. Medicine and health care due to an aging population. It's just gonna be need. 2, tech because The more education, the more structured, and the more people realize it's available, structured, specific, and accessible online, It's going to become a much more attractive option than physically going to a college because it's on demand.

Hannah Maruyama [00:12:46]:
It's just more convenient, And it's cheaper. And so people are going to choose that over other things. And then 3, I actually think teaching. And the reason I think this is because 17 states now have formal paid teacher apprenticeships, and it's because of need. Because what's happening is teachers are not being paid enough to make buying the degrees that they're buying worth it, so people are not going into teaching. And then also, it's a terrible system in general that's failing teachers and students, and so teachers are leaving it because why would they stay. And due to that, now we're getting down into efficiency, which is we need people to teach, and therefore, we are just going to train teachers by putting them with existing teachers, and we're gonna have them supervised and paid while they learn to do this because, otherwise, you won't be able to attract anyone because you're not gonna be able to attract Anybody that is going to go into deep debt to then take these jobs. So that's what's gonna happen.

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:44]:
So let's take that 1 by 1 again. Medicine and health care, You said due to an aging population. What do you mean?

Hannah Maruyama [00:13:52]:
Because our population is aging so much, we're now going into the silent generation was

Ryan Maruyama [00:13:58]:
I have no idea. Just don't say any of that. So give me a age ranges.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:02]:
Oh, okay. So baby boomers. So, like, my

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:04]:
I have no idea that means.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:05]:
Our parents

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:06]:
tell me about.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:06]:
Age. I'm trying to make this easy. So our parents age are starting to the oldest part of our parents generation Are starting to go into.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:15]:
So what are our parents? Like, sixties?

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:17]:
I would say, probably, we're looking at 60 to 70 years old.

Ryan Maruyama [00:14:21]:
That is so much better.

Hannah Maruyama [00:14:22]:
Unhealthy late 50 year olds too. But they're starting to go into assisted living. They're starting to need more medical care because They're starting to get sick because they're old. Because of that, there is such a demand and such a need. So we're looking at people who are, I'm gonna ballpark 60 to 70 plus, and they are going to need health care. They're gonna need age assisted living. They're gonna need The type of health care services that you need when you are older. And because of that, and because we have just a general shortage of medical staff in our country that is Going to get worse because we are charging them so much money to go into medicine, which is already a difficult field to begin with.

Hannah Maruyama [00:15:04]:
We are going to see a rapid down credentialing in those fields because of need. And when I say down credentialing, what I mean is we are going to See a shift to vocational training. We're gonna see a shift to practical experience. We're gonna see a shift into apprenticeship and down credentialing for a lot of medical and tech Jobs, it's already happening now, but it's gonna continue to escalate. And those jobs are gonna get more accessible to people because there's now not this giant barrier of 4 years and a $100,000 plus to get into these jobs.

Ryan Maruyama [00:15:36]:
Got it. Got it. So because of the demand, the demand is going to increase due to the aging population because they are gonna need more health care. Like, literally, they're gonna need more care. And because that demand is increasing and the supply is shrinking or the supply is really bad, we are going to have to increase the supply in a really quick and rapid way. The way that we would do that is down credential the job. That's what you're arguing. That's what you're positing.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:02]:
Correct. We're gonna remove 4 year degree requirements from in front of things because they're Sarah, you don't need art history in order to learn how to be a cardiac tech. Nobody cares. Nobody cares if you took state history if you're gonna run somebody through an MRI machine. You just need to know how to run somebody through an I troubleshoot if things go wrong in health care. And truthfully too, there's a lot of people that will protest at this, but the reality is You don't care about the academics of the person who is doing that. You care that they know how to do their job. That's what you care about.

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:31]:
Yeah. I've never once had somebody ask the paramedic where they went to college when we were performing CPR.

Hannah Maruyama [00:16:40]:
So, like, you're putting Narcan some into somebody, and they're like, excuse me, sir. Do you have a medical?

Ryan Maruyama [00:16:45]:
Not even Narcan. I'm just saying they're dead, and we were pumping chest, and nobody ever stopped and said, hey, Zach, what college did you go to? And Zach would look up and say I didn't, can I get back to work? And there'd be like, yeah, sure. Let's make this person live again. You know what I mean? Like, and so that right there in that moment, you don't care. You don't care. Yeah. Nobody cares because why you need it, but it paints a really good point, which is if you don't care about that, why do you care about all the other stuff? Has this person ever done what it is that you're asking? And we've talked about this before, but what you care about. How many people have you brought back from the dead? It's funny you

Hannah Maruyama [00:17:29]:
bring this up. I actually have this written down here too, because I will go ahead and go in on teaching. I'm never one to shy away from this, but we'll go on on the teachers. If taking the national board certification gets you the license, why do you need a 4 year degree? If you can pass that test, why? I want to know. If the test is the thing that determines whether or not you get your license, if someone self studies or is able to command The material enough that they can do that. What is the difference between you and them? Nothing.

Ryan Maruyama [00:17:58]:
Yeah. It's the same thing with the MCAT. Same thing with the bar.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:00]:
So the next point I have is I I feel the same way about the bar and the MCAT. No. I don't need my doctor to give a crap about art history. I don't need him to appreciate Jackson Pollock. I don't need her to care.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:12]:
But you don't need your doctor to even be premed.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:15]:
No. That's what I mean. That's what I'm saying.

Ryan Maruyama [00:18:17]:
I understand what you're saying, but you're using this totally on a left field illustration of a degree that doesn't matter.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:25]:
Well, my next sentence. I don't even need her to have gone through Biology 101. I don't care. Can she pass the MCAT? Because that's the thing that's gonna get her into medical school. I don't care. I want my doctor in less debt so they care more about my health outcomes than selling me a drug to pay off their student debt. That's just how I feel. I'd rather have them in medical school touching patients.

Hannah Maruyama [00:18:47]:
I'd rather have them medical school observing, working with people, Diagnosing, cutting people open if that's part of their specialty. I want them there sooner. I want them there in less debt, and I do not care If they are well rounded by their bachelor's degree, I do not care. Do not care. That's how I feel. And, no, I also feel the same way about lawyers. If you can pass the bar, there's zero reason. Don't need you to care, especially, like, personal injury, divorce lawyers, whatever.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:12]:
Like, be a shark. I don't care.

Ryan Maruyama [00:19:14]:
And that's just within the structure that we have today. And those being the gatekeepers, like the bar and the MCAT and their certification as a teacher. Like, that's just within the realm and of the reality of which we live today. But if you go far enough back, we didn't have any of that.

Hannah Maruyama [00:19:35]:
There's still 4 states where you can take the bar through apprenticeship. It's called reading the law. It's how lawyers used to become lawyers. People are like, oh, well, that's impossible for lawyers. It's not until literally how they used to become Lawyers and not that far into the past. This wasn't very long ago. And, truthfully, that's a much more practical way to learn law, and I think a lot of lawyers agree with that actually, Which is if you are physically in the courtroom, you're physically working in a law firm that's in the type of law you're going to go into, that's a much more practical way to learn law than law school.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:03]:
What I find interesting about the people that argue against the 4 states doing that and not opening it up to all the other states is they say, well, going that path, most people do not pass the bar if you go that path. I forget what the statistic is, but it's not great.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:23]:
Washington state has the highest pass rate, and it's 52%, which is pretty good.

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:27]:
Okay. Sure. But the 3 other states, not great. It's less then if you will go to law school. My point being is that if you pass the bar, it doesn't matter. Just open it up to all the other people. And if you're saying that all these idiots can't pass the bar by not going to law school, then guess what? All the idiots won't pass the bar.

Hannah Maruyama [00:20:48]:
And then they won't be lawyers because they can't pass the bar. It's and I'm like, aren't you a lawyer?

Ryan Maruyama [00:20:52]:
This is not circular logic ever experienced. Keeping it because they're all idiots, and they can't pass the bar. But you not opening it up because they're all idiots, and they can't pass the bar makes no sense.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:03]:
Right. Like, they're really, they can't do that because they wouldn't be able to do it. I'm like, well, if they wouldn't be able to do it, what are you worried about?

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:08]:

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:09]:
What's your concern? Are they gonna pay? What is it? $500 to take the bar or whatever it costs? Like And

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:13]:
if it's I I was just about to get to that. I was just, like, if if it's a question of resources, you don't want a bunch of idiots. I'm using this in air quotes, guys. A bunch of idiots taking this thing, then you would charge everybody the same amount of money to make it fiscally responsible for that state to take the bar. And so whatever you do the math and you say, it costs $1,000 for every bar exam. That's how much we need to recoup. K, will then charge $1200, and you make a little bit of money. And then you're paying for all of the grading.

Ryan Maruyama [00:21:43]:
You're creating paying for all of the proctors and everything with that. So the resources as far as it sucking from the system, that one's done out of the window. Next argument. What is it? You don't have 1.

Hannah Maruyama [00:21:52]:
No. But The people that are worried about that they're so, yeah. People shouldn't be able to do that because they'll use their resources on taking the bar, and they're not responsible enough to do so. But those same people will be totally fine With those exact same idiots, as we were saying, paying $200,000 to go to law school to make $40, to make $60,000 And never recoup what they paid for law school. That's totally fine. But these same people are not responsible enough to make the personal decision to pay $500 or whatever it is to take the bar. It just doesn't make any sense.

Ryan Maruyama [00:22:21]:
So we did a really good job of talking about 0.1 and 0.3, the teaching one. I think you did a really good job of of summing that up and why you believe that the Dom credential is gonna continue in that industry. You also made a good argument or at least a clear argument of why you see coming down in medicine and health care. Give me the second one. You're talking about tech. You're talking about automation. I have no idea what you were saying. Why is down credentialing going to continue in the tech industry?

Hannah Maruyama [00:22:48]:
Down credentialing is gonna continue in the tech industry because there's really no logical reason to go to a College for something that they don't even have programs for because they can't keep up. The most easily accessible place and the most realistic place To learn tech skills is on the Internet. So there are going to be almost no colleges that can compete with the speed of the Internet For iterating, for actually giving people the opportunities that they need in the way that they need them, in the way that are the easiest for them. And when I say easiest, I mean, You can get on and access the opportunities when you want to. You can go through the material at your own pace. You can pay or find whatever you need. So, like, You can go on Reddit and find fully formed curriculums for machine learning. All the advanced mathematics, everything.

Hannah Maruyama [00:23:36]:
It's unbelievable. It's free. You can go on there and find it for yourself, Or you can pay for a curated course where somebody has found that and put it together for you and is physically teaching it. Or If you want to learn in a course with other people, you can go find a course with other people where they're learning together and building projects together. That type of accessibility, colleges can't compete with it. They cannot. They physically can't because the Internet is for everybody, and it's just decentralization of education. And that's why I'm so vehement all the time about College is not a synonym for education.

Hannah Maruyama [00:24:08]:
College is not education. It's just not. Education is wherever you learn something. Education is any material that teaches you something or that you learn something from. And so that's why I think that tech is just gonna become More and more lawless, basically. Like, less and less rules all the time, because it's gonna have more use cases, and it's gonna be easier and easier and Cheaper and cheaper and more accessible to more people all the time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:24:32]:
This goes back to what we were talking about last week when I was doing the review of all the guests. We were talking a lot about the developers, and we were talking the 3 things that the developers talked about or the the 4 developers. I didn't mention it, but Matt Young also talked about building a portfolio. The thing that they all said was building a portfolio. And that's what matters going forward. That is what people need to see. That is what going to set you apart from everybody else. It's show me.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:05]:
Don't tell me that you can do it. I don't care if you can tell me. Show me that you can do it. Hey there. I hope that you're loving This episode of the degree free podcast, we spend a ton of time every week creating this content for you. So my only ask is you take a quick second to leave a review or thumbs up on whatever platform you're on. It's one of the best and easiest ways that you can support this podcast, and this simple action can help bring more people into the degree free community. At degree free, we wanna help as many people as we can thrive and succeed without needing a college degree.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:35]:
Your review will be a step in that direction. If you could do this small favor right now, pause this and leave a review. It would truly mean the world to us. Thank you, and back to the show.

Hannah Maruyama [00:25:44]:
You and I talk to a lot of developers and engineers. And one thing that I think I can usually tell on TikTok if someone is one either how long they've been in tech, how long they've been an engineer or developer.

Ryan Maruyama [00:25:59]:
I wanna be clear, though. You're saying tech and then developers and engineers, and and I did too. But I'm not saying that engineers equals tech. We were just about to go down a slippery slope where we said that. You were just about to equate tech and software engineers, which I wanna make clear. I don't think actually what you meant.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:16]:
What's not?

Ryan Maruyama [00:26:17]:
Yeah. Perfect. And, no, that's not what I meant either. I was just talking about the guys that were software engineers talking about how you need a portfolio, and anybody in tech could use a portfolio. Anyone anywhere could really use a portfolio, but that's where we are gonna see it happen a lot more is in tech because they don't care as much about the college degree because of exactly all the things that you were saying, which is the learning happens outside. And it's so much quicker. And you can show your work.

Hannah Maruyama [00:26:45]:
My second to last prediction for 2024 is that there's going to be a very large uptick in small business creation, Specifically among Gen z. I've been working with a lot of Gen z new adults, and They are extremely entrepreneurial, but by and large, the ones that I've been talking to, almost all of them have an interest in starting a business of some kind. And the businesses they are interested in starting are very practical. And so that, I think, it kind of goes back to Our AI report where we were talking about industries that are gonna be more AI proof, jobs that are gonna get taken over by it. And I think we're gonna see a rise in these AI proof Service based businesses like childcare, elder care, trades, and service based businesses like delivery And food prep. I think that that's gonna happen over the next year, and I think that those are largely gonna be started by Gen z.

Ryan Maruyama [00:27:40]:
So 16 to 22 year olds are very entrepreneurial. That's for everybody that also struggles with the generations like I do. So 16 to 22 year old are very entrepreneurial, and they are starting AI proofed businesses or at least they're not AI proof. No business is. It's just that they're gonna be augmented less buy AI because every company will have AI whether or not they know it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:05]:
Yeah. It's like data. Yeah. Company has data.

Ryan Maruyama [00:28:07]:
Exactly. Doesn't matter.

Hannah Maruyama [00:28:09]:
And then what I want to see, this is not a prediction, but it's what I want to see is an increase in business buying and transfer, because it's gonna be such a waste for all these Baby boomer businesses to go out of business. It's just such a waste because it's all this stranded energy, and I just can't help but grieve that Because of all that you and I know as business owner, there's so much blood, sweat, tears, development, just so much work that goes into building and maintaining a business And especially a brick and mortar business. Right? And so it's just such a bummer to see these businesses just shut down because their kids don't want it. And that to me is such a waste, and there's so much potential there to see transfer and training of a younger generation. And then also, like, selfishly for those business owners, a lot of them didn't plan for retirement. And I'd like to see them taken care of Because it's not like their Social Security is gonna do it. Like, I'd like seeing them getting a monthly check because then the people that buy the business from them don't have Actually pay out with their own money. They might be able to take profit from the business.

Hannah Maruyama [00:29:11]:
Anyway, it's just something I'd like to see.

Ryan Maruyama [00:29:13]:
I agree wholeheartedly with that point. And to your point, the big, big word there is retirement. And most of these business owners haven't planned for it. And so to have their business shutter overnight is massive for them because the income doesn't come in, which is why you see a lot of aging business owners in this business still operating it, still running it. You walk into a local retailer, and then you see behind the counter, It's a old man or old lady, old husband and wife couple, and you're just like, oh, what are you doing still running these things? Well, I have to because I don't have a paycheck coming to me. And a lot of these people, they haven't been paying into Social Security, so they don't have it coming to them. And so the magic word is retire. And if you can get your hands on creative funding, then you can take these businesses for almost nothing upfront in cash.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:12]:
And so you don't have to have a lot of cash. You just have to be creative in the way that you finance the deal. So one of the keywords when you're financing a deal, it's seller financing. And so if you're as long as you're able and the other party is able to agree on terms. Maybe it's 50 grand up front, whatever. Maybe it's 5 grand up front. Whatever you can there's no right or wrong answer. Just whatever you and the business owner come to an agreement about.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:37]:
And then it is

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:39]:
$500 a month.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:40]:
Yeah. Or more more. I you know, I mean, whatever the number is. And it could be in perpetuity. It could not be.

Hannah Maruyama [00:30:46]:
Yeah. It could be for the next 10 years.

Ryan Maruyama [00:30:48]:
Exactly. And so that is really, really important because a lot of these people have these businesses that are successful. They've been in business for 20, 30 years. They're successful enough, and all you have to do is say, hey. I'm willing to give you I'm willing to fund your retirement off of what you've built because your kids don't wanna

Hannah Maruyama [00:31:12]:
do it. But I will.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:13]:
So I'll do it. To talk about this point a little bit more when you're talking about the 16 to 22 year olds. To talk about that, why they are more entrepreneurial, and why we are seeing not as many of them go to school or go to college. It's because their parents are in trouble from going to school. Their parents went to college. They got degrees. Some of them, a lot of them, they got multiple degrees. And they are burned.

Ryan Maruyama [00:31:43]:
And they got way into debt. And then they went and found a job that they didn't need a degree for. And they made not anywhere near the amount of money that they thought they were gonna make, and some of them stopped working. Some of them are stay at home parents with 2 degrees and massive amounts of debt. And so they see that it didn't work out for them. And because it didn't work out for them, this generation is starting to think. Like, oh

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:10]:
Maybe I can't do that, because the thing is to the cost since their parents bought has still skyrocketed. Every year, it goes up crazy amount. Every 9 years, it doubles. And so they're just looking at it and going, can't justify the cost.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:22]:
I imagine my prediction, not for 2024, but my prediction for 40 years from now, 30 years from now or whatever is that it's going to switch again. And we are gonna see, maybe it's not college. Maybe it's something else. I hope it's something else, but whatever it is, probably college, is gonna come back in vogue because all their parents didn't go, and then they'd be like, I don't want that life, whatever whatever. And, you know, it's all a cycle.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:50]:
There's a time for everything under the sun.

Ryan Maruyama [00:32:52]:
Yeah. Exactly. I agree with both of those points for sure.

Hannah Maruyama [00:32:56]:
Yep. So I also think we'll see continued Drop in college enrollment. So that was my last prediction. There's just no justifying the cost, and people are realizing that education is accessible, more tailored, and more effective if targeted and specific.

Ryan Maruyama [00:33:09]:
That pretty much sums up exactly what we were just talking about to a tee. Enrollment is dropping, and a lot of the reason why the enrollment is dropping is because they're not seeing as much value in it. And then, like I said, their parents are just like, my kid's not gonna say make the same mistake. You got me twice.

Hannah Maruyama [00:33:28]:
What I'm waiting for and what I think is college's only hope of surviving this backlash Is I am waiting because they're getting closer to it. A lot of colleges are now going, oh, 3 year degree, which is cute, right, because we know that that's still four. That's actually 4 years. A 3 year degree is probably a 4 year it's probably a 4 year degree because a 4 year degree is five and a half years. But what I wanna see, and this is why I I have such a hard time with people that think that college is education. Like, college equals education. College is the same word as education. If that was true, then college would be a la carte.

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:00]:
I would go, and I would take exactly the classes that I want or need. That's it. I'm here because I need to learn a thing, and I'm going to Come to your institution. I'm going to pay you $2. I'm going to learn the thing. I'm gonna take that, and I'm gonna leave because that's all I needed from you. And that's the thing that college is they're so greedy, and it's it's such an institutional big business at this point. It's such a big industry that I don't have a lot of for them being able to separate and actually adjust their spending and adjust the lifestyle of people that run colleges in this way.

Hannah Maruyama [00:34:33]:
But it should be you go and you choose. Like, I wanna go take machine learning. So that's all I'm gonna go do. I'm gonna take 1 class because I believe that the information I need in order what I'm trying to do is in that class. I should only have to take 1, and I should be able to put that on my resume, and that should be the thing that they're looking for. Right? That's the granularity That businesses are gonna be looking for, and that's college's refusal to do that or inability to do that is what is gonna kill them, I think, in the end.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:00]:
I'm not sure I agree with that at all. Listening to that, I'm just trying to figure out what portion of that I disagree with. I don't think that that's the answer. I think that that's may be closer to the answer.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:13]:
I think that's their best shot at surviving.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:15]:
Maybe. I think they're gonna be fine. I think they're the best marketers in the world, in the US at least. Maybe some colleges, shutter. Sure. I think the institution as it is right now, if you were to just drop admissions and drop the degree requirement, and you can take a 500 level course or whatever, just a la carte. I don't think that that would help anybody. I mean, I don't see it.

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:41]:
Well, that's what people are doing online right now.

Ryan Maruyama [00:35:42]:
Yes. But why do we need colleges to do it?

Hannah Maruyama [00:35:45]:
I'm saying we don't. I'm saying if colleges want to survive, If they want to actually go back to being a force, I think that that's what they're gonna have to do. Like I said, I don't think that's going to help anybody. But I think that if colleges were Actually, education. If we're actually out for the general education and accessible education for all, like, they claim they are, but they're not. You know, if they're actually out for the greater good like they claim they are, that's what they would do. But they don't do that. And I think that if they did, that would be their best hope.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:09]:
Well, they're not out for the greater good. They're a business.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:11]:
Right. But that's not what they say. And so that's my whole point is if they were, that's what they would do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:17]:
I don't see that happening anytime soon. And it has everything to do with diluting their brand and diluting their product, because then it becomes very transactional. You only come to us for this one thing, you don't come to us for our whole package. You're gonna have to unbundle the package, which there is this like economic theory, and maybe it's more of a marketing theory. I'm not sure.

Hannah Maruyama [00:36:44]:
Bundling and unbundling.

Ryan Maruyama [00:36:46]:
Everything is bundling and unbundling. There's nothing new under the sun. It's all just being bundled and then unbundled and then bundled and then unbundled. And so A good example of that could be, like, cable television back in the nineties, back in the 2000 when cable television, what, bundled up everything that you could watch. And so it had all of the channels that you could have wanted and that existed. And then now it's unbundling. Right? And so the unbundling was Netflix, Paramount Plus, Peacock, Max, Prime, SOMETH, Hulu, all these streaming services are unbundling. And then now we're getting overwhelmed.

Ryan Maruyama [00:37:30]:
We have, like, 7 streaming apps, and I have a Disney plus and a ESPN plus. I'm like, oh my god. I don't know which one. I would you know what I would really love? I would just love want service that just has everything. And then I could just pay one thing, right, which is you're asking for cable. Like, you're asking for cable. It just looks packaged differently.

Hannah Maruyama [00:37:49]:
That's kinda what I think, because it colleges used to be much more like that. People would go for very specific things, And then they would leave after they did a very specific thing. Not so specific that it was 1 class, but I do think that if colleges want to compete with The Internet for education, they're gonna have to let people learn what they want or what they're interested in and only that.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:10]:
Yeah. I'm not saying that we're not gonna see this from certain colleges and from certain universities. I'm sure I'm positive that it's happening right now, but I think as a whole in the industry, I don't think it's gonna happen at least for a very long time. And the reason why is because it dilutes their product, because you wanna go there for the degree. The whole reason why you are going there is because of the piece of paper that you get at the end of it all, not because you took 1 class there. That's not what they're selling. They're not selling the education. They're selling the paper.

Ryan Maruyama [00:38:45]:
As a college, they don't wanna dilute that brand. Were coming very similar, and we're getting very close to my segment that I only did 1 episode on, but it's coming the 2nd episode's coming, guys. Make sure you subscribe of College Marketing Secrets. Right? We're getting very close to that. And so I don't see it happening at most institutions, anytime soon.

Hannah Maruyama [00:39:06]:
I think that they're gonna they will die on their paper hill for sure. But I think that if they wanna survive, that's what they need to do.

Ryan Maruyama [00:39:12]:
So I wanted to end this episode because this is the 1st episode of the year. Thank you very much for listening to this, and thank you very much for being here in 2024. I wanted to talk about, some degree free predictions, degree free goals, things of that nature. I am very excited because in 2024, I think that this podcast and I think the degree free movement is going to explode. Not anything to do with us. I mean, sure. Were paddling, I guess, but really the wave. We're just riding this wave of this whole degree free movement.

Ryan Maruyama [00:39:46]:
We're not creating it. Not really. Right. But people, companies, the leaders at the top of these companies, the people at the leaders of, at the top of these states, they're starting to see, they're starting to understand what we've been saying for years, which is like your college degree doesn't matter. Doesn't matter where you bought your paper from. Degree free people can do the same jobs that college degree people can do, and they are putting their money where their mouth is. Literally, they are putting their money where their mouth is, and they are hiring and making it easier to hire degree free people.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:20]:
Also being transparent about the fact that they are, and they have been hiring them the whole time.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:24]:
Yeah. Because they're better.

Hannah Maruyama [00:40:25]:
That's they definitely stay longer. That's for sure.

Ryan Maruyama [00:40:30]:
Coming up very soon. We have some very big announcements that we've been working on for the past few months. If The podcast is the only way that you keep in touch with us, then maybe you're not sure about it. Maybe you haven't heard about it. But if you've been on our website, if you've been in our TikTok. You know, we've made some slight changes, and we are going to announce them very soon. So that is very exciting, and that is going to really, really help boost degree free and the movement and everything that we're doing. Yeah.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:01]:
That's a perfect place to leave this week's episode. Happy new year.

Hannah Maruyama [00:41:06]:
Happy new year.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:07]:
Happy new year, everyone. And 2024 is gonna be our year.

Hannah Maruyama [00:41:11]:
Yep. Let's make it happen.

Ryan Maruyama [00:41:13]:
Absolutely. Until next time, guys.

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