September 7, 2021

Always Be Ready to Job Leap - Ep. 11

How To Always Be Ready for a New Job, and How to Find and Learn Skills You Need to Be Hirable

Here is How You Can Always Be Ready to Get a New Job

In this episode, we talk about:
  • You never want to be out of a job, but be between work.
  • Work stability is not real. You cannot depend on it.
  • Be ready to leave at all times. 
Ryan shares his view of the end of the 'gold watch' employment era, and how people can be prepared for other jobs at all times.
Hannah talks about which skills you can learn to make yourself marketable.

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Have you ever wanted to get a job, but you didn’t try because you didn’t have a degree? Don't miss last week's episode. We talk about how to look, how to apply, and get great jobs without a degree!

Links and Notes from the Episode

Episode Transcript
Please enjoy this transcript or our episode!

Please note the transcript may have a few errors. We're human. It can be hard to catch all the errors from a full length conversation. Enjoy!

Ryan: Aloha guys, and welcome back to Degree Free. We are your hosts, Ryan and Hannah Maruyama. On this podcast, we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating, getting work, building businesses and making money. We'll tell you how to make it happen. No degree needed.

Hannah: Welcome back everybody.

Thank you so much for listening. Make sure to like, and subscribe and leave us a review if you liked last episode or this episode. All right. So if you do want to get all of the information that we talk about in this podcast or previous podcast because it's actionable and you think it's going to help you please check out our website, which is degreefreenetwork.com and please grab our guide.

It is 40 pages of information that is going to help you find a job without a college degree, and you can grab it on the website.

Ryan: Yeah. Excellent, and let's get into today's topic today. Hopefully it's going to be a quick one. We always think it's going to be a quick one and it never is, but no. Promise. Promise we're going to try.

Hannah: That was realistic.

Ryan: And so today's topic we are going to, we're going to be talking about is just being ready to job leap. And so what I mean by that is just be at all times, be ready to look towards the next thing that you're doing. If you're currently in a job and you liked the job, just always being prepared to move over, to do something else.

It's something that we feel like we need to discuss because we see it happens so often. You know, there are a few things— I guess like the why of what we're talking about.

Hannah: Why would we need to tell people to be ready to take this job leap?

Ryan: Right. And it's like, There are a few different reasons. One is like kind the crappiest one is that people hate their jobs.

Hannah: It happens a lot. That's what happens when you choose your life path at 17 years old.

Ryan: Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of people that hate their job, but not only that, there are a lot of people that there are a lot of people that are, are, you know, this is like their "third career" and they still hate their job.

Hannah: Well, sometimes too, you can like a job and then something changes about the job and now you hate it.

Ryan: Or something changed about yourself. Times change, people change, things change.

And so that's the first group of people. You have people that hate their jobs. They feel stuck. They feel like they're just on this hamster wheel of life every day, doing the same thing, or they just hate, they hate the industry, they hate their coworkers or, whatever the case may be. But they just feel trapped and because they feel trapped, they're started looking at other things. Right. And a lot of people, they don't feel—because they've been so focused on their career because they've been so focused and that they're going to stay with that company for so long that they're going to stay in that job for so long.

They're not ready to take the leap.

Hannah: Yeah. And then those same people, when they get laid off or fired, they are shocked. That just rocks their world because they thought, I dunno if people just think that when they get a job, it's going to last forever, but that's just not the way the job market is nowadays.

It's so fast and it just changes so rapidly. And especially, I mean, we all learn that too. Right. And, and when COVID started, which is you can lose your job at a moment's notice and anybody, and everybody is at risk of losing their job almost all the time. And it does not help people to pretend that that's not the case.

It doesn't help people to pretend that that's not the case. Not that you have to be an alarmist about it, but a lot of people I think were really, really surprised when they lost their jobs. You know, even if they worked in industries that no longer had any business and that's, that's huge, you need to be prepared for that kind of thing.

Cause it's about your life. You know, you gotta think about that. Cause your employer won't.

Ryan: With that cohort of people, what we see happen a lot is they start talking like, oh man, maybe I should go back to school.

Hannah: Almost immediately.

Ryan: Maybe, maybe I should go back to school. It's a knee-jerk reaction. It's like the first thing that you do is—it's safety that's why. It's perceived safety. Yeah. It's perceived safety and it's familiar. And it's like, oh, well, what do I do if I want job training? If I want to go into a different field, if I can't get a job in this field, this field no longer exists, or I just got laid off of this job, this job sucked anyway or I just quit. They're like, oh yeah, I'll go back to school to get trained into a different field. When, you know, our whole argument is that like, there's not, that's not the case, like job training and college are two vastly different things. And you know, if you're prepared before you don't, you won't have that knee jerk reaction, or if you do have that knee jerk reaction, you can calm down and be like, okay, well, I had a plan.

Yeah. I have a plan.

Hannah: See what else I can do first.

Ryan: Right there, there, there are other things to do.

Hannah: We saw that a lot here in Hawaii when that happened was people who, what I heard because of the industry I was working in at the time, I heard people who had like marketing degrees or they had a hospitality degrees or they had business degrees and then they're all like, oh, I'm going to go get my MBA. Why would you do that? Don't do that. Clearly, your job doesn't exist and going to buy a more expensive degree is not going to make that job exist anymore. It just means you're going to spend money to try to apply for the same type of job that now no longer exists. And it was because they were so crystallized into this way of thinking that that's the only way that they can change lanes.

They can't just learn a new skill. They can't just teach themselves something else and then apply for something in the same field with just a slightly different added skill, you know, like they, you know, somebody with a marketing degree doesn't, didn't just go learn and get a social media management certification or something like that, or learn Google ads. Instead, they're like, oh, I'm going to go get an MBA. Maybe this is better because one, this is free and that's a really good idea. So try this first and see if you can apply within that field and get a job. But a lot of people, I think a lot of people believe, and I think maybe colleges didn't apply this, but that they're going to only have like one or two jobs and they're going to stay in the same field because they have a degree with but it's just not the case for a lot of people.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. And we kind of talked about it before, but like the days, it used to work. I mean, I've had many jobs.

Hannah: That's one thing I will say. So gen X, which is the generation before— I don't know, they're older than us, but they said that they said that on average they have six career changes in their lives.

I've read that statistic, and then I looked at my resumeand I'm like got like 12 on here, like already, you know, and I'm not even 30 years old yet. And I think for a lot of millennials and people younger than us, that's the case. Yeah.

Ryan: So when is the career changes? Is that, is that job change? Like, do they account, like what, at what point did they start?

At what point do they start counting careers versus job, right. Versus job. Yeah, because then like, so. I mean, I used to sell lemonade or whatever, you know, and I didn't, but you know what I mean? Like, is that it? Well, now I deliver newspapers and then, and then, and then after that I dunk fries and like, the job was out of career.

Hannah: Six changes though.

Yeah. Let's go for that. Six changes, you know?

Ryan: So anyway, you know, his, his career after, like, I wonder if career is after a certain, like once you get established in your career and then you have multiple job changes after that, are those careers now, you know what I mean? So like, okay. So like, for example, like after college I went and I got a consumer credit underwriting job. It's my job to approve and deny consumer credit loans, you know?

Okay. Fricking hated that job, that job sucked. And then, so I quit and then I went back to bartending. I mean, I was always bartending, but then I went back to it for a time.

Right.

Hannah: So is that count as three or two.

Ryan: Or is that a job change? Right. So anyway, just depends on how careers defined. I understand the essence of what you're trying to, or the point that you're trying to make, but but anyway. So the days of people having one job pretty much over forever.

So, to that point of the older generations, I remember when I got that first job, I remember I looked around and I mean, I was in the cubicles. I mean, it was a big campus and it was big fricking like no windows open floor. We just have those office cubicle, standup things, no privacy, but in my department, like other than I was the youngest person by like 10 years. And then that person was the youngest person, but like four years. And then after that though, we were, I was like 20 years above them. So it was like crazy.

Anyway that goes to show, well, I just, I did that quick demographics because everybody, other than this first two people there. They'd had been there for—one of them had been there for 40 years already.

Hannah: That's wild.

Ryan: Yeah, the manager, at the time she was going on 20 something. The assistant manager he was going on, you know, I don't know, 15, you know, 19 whatever. And then the people that the, then the underwriters my coworkers, they had been in the same job, or at least in the, in that bank for, you know, 20 years or something like that.

And it's just like, that was their job. Like that's the job and they're not moving. You know, I'm pretty sure that they're still there to this day. And I think that those days—they are quickly going away. The job, the job landscape is constantly changing. Constantly changing. People's jobs get eliminated super quickly, and the new jobs come online. Almost immediately.

Hannah: Overnight.

Ryan: Right?

Hannah: It happens so fast.

Ryan: Right? Exactly. Overnight.

Hannah: It's technology too.

Yeah. That's what, that's what it is. That everything's faster. And people just— I don't think the colleges definitely don't know that. Like, because they do hardly anything differently, and because of that college graduates are not equipped with that information.

They do not know that. They go on to the job market and they see stuff changed so fast and no one prepared them for that. No one prepared them. They had no idea.

Ryan: This is a little side note. This isn't really, this isn't really the main point that we're talking about, but like also those people that are still working in those jobs.

And I've talked about this before, but like, If you didn't get promoted, you're just getting your standard inflation raise every year, you know, the 3% every year.

Which now, you're not even outpacing inflation.

Hannah: So if you're getting a, if you're getting an inflation rate at 3%, you need to talk to them because it's not accurate anymore. Right. Exactly. That said we don't know what it is now. So who knows.

Ryan: We can only go by with it. Yeah. Right, with 5%. But anyway, that's for another time. But I guess the biggest thing here—so those are the different types of people, and I think the first thing that needs to be addressed when talking about getting ready to job leap, or being ready to job leap rather is just changing your mindset, changing our approach to these things to this in particular, which is like, once you get a job, not thinking that this is it.

Like not to 100%. I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy yourself.

Hannah: Not that you shouldn't settle in.

Ryan: I'm not saying that you shouldn't get comfortable. Just saying that. Okay, get the job, learn it, do well, do work. Get your resume ready.

Hannah: Yeah, it's not fun. People, don't like to hear it because it's work. But the thing is, you know, what's going to be a lot less work is if all of a sudden you're out of a job and you don't have to chorale yourself back into that mindset. Just stay there. Just get comfortable with the fact that you may have to leave, or you may have to change your situation. Also because if you do become uncomfortable or dissatisfied with your situation, at some point, like you don't like your team now, or they changed the compensation, and you're not happy with that or they're not willing to negotiate or the change benefits are something that's important to you about the job changes and it no longer suits you. It means that when that happens, instead of like everybody else, who's at the job who just complains and stays exactly where they are you're like, I'll leave.

I'll find something better. And that is really empowering because then you never feel like you are a victim of your work situation because you are in control of your work situation. If you do not like it do not stay there. And being prepared to do so is really empowering because then you can just go, all right, well, I'll just stay here. And while I'm still here, I'm going to be applying for other jobs because I'm going to find something that gives me what I'm looking for.

Ryan: Yeah, you can fix your own problems, right? Another thing that I did want to say too about like, getting your resume ready, because I saw you get there, do your training, whatever, and then you start to like, get your resume ready.

One of the tips that— you know, recruiters have people that help you find jobs. One of the tips is like, it's actually one of the best things that you can do is right at the beginning, changing your resume, as soon as you get the job, because it's all fresh.

Hannah: And there's not a lot to do. Yeah.

Ryan: It's all fresh while you're still doing it. And then, so like what it could look like is —a I mean, a resume is a living document anyway. So, you're always constantly making updates to it, but you know, the good thing that you could do is you could save, definitely save that job posting that you got hired for, copy and paste it into a word doc, copy and paste it into your resume.

Hannah: I've never done that. That is so smart.

Ryan: Yeah. So you copy and paste it. And then, so there's a, there's each, there's a job requirements or the job qualifications or whatever. And then, so right when you get hired, you can kind of alter that and put it into your resume and then, all right. Everybody knows that that job requirement, job listing isn't 100% accurate, right? You are going to get a better understanding. You're going to go deeper into whatever that line says. And after you do that, you know, you're working in the job for a month, two months, a year, two years, whatever it is, however long it takes you. Yeah, go back to your resume and it'd be like, okay, this is what I actually do in this job, right? And then you tailor your resume to specifically what it is you're actually doing. So first thing is copy and paste the job, the job requirement into a word doc. Save that thing, read it later. Put at the very beginning, put a couple of lines into your new job, into your new input on the resume.

And then when you've actually learned your job, when you're proficient at your job. When you're at the point where you're training other people now go and edit it some more so that it's even better. So that it's even more specific. But anyway, that's just a, just a tip that I got.

Hannah: That's super smart.

Ryan: Yeah. That was a tip that I got a long time ago.

Hannah: Super smart. Yeah. Very simple, too.

Ryan: Super simple, and it makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense because you're like, oh man I have to like, think about what I do. I gotta, I gotta like write what I gotta do, but like, well, at the very beginning they already wrote what you're going to do.

They literally already wrote it. And so just don't work. Don't work harder, work smarter, you know what I mean? Copy and paste that shit on my resume. I mean, done. Exactly. It's a lot easier to, instead of sink back and draw from memory, what you've done.

Hannah: Critique what they said, and then, you know.

Ryan: No, no, no, no.

But I'm saying like once you're in, instead of, so the other alternative is that you're going to edit your resume after. But then after you, after you've quit the job, now you're a little fuzzy about what it is you used to do, right? A week later after, after you lost your job the next day. Oh man, what did I used to do?

And then now you have to think about it, but then if you do it right while you're doing it, oh yeah, this is what I do. I lead a team, lead a team of four on this project management, you know, whatever, you know, anyway, that's just a little, little aside. Yeah. So, kind of in a conjunction with you changing your mindset so that you changing your internal thought process of job stability.

You also need to realize that the external work stability is not real.

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah that is huge for a lot of people. It's also new information, work stability at present in the market. The way it is now is not a real thing. People only make their money through job leaps. That's the only way to get significant raises.

You can hardly ever get a significant raise exactly where you are because they know your value they're already paying you. As far as the market has dictated, right? So if you go in and ask for a raise of $20,000, they're going to laugh at you, right? Like they're going to laugh.

Ryan: Yeah. Most of the time.

It really depends.

Hannah: It depends. It depends on your job like a C-suite executive going. I want 20 grand more, all right. All right, Candice sounds good. All right, Michelle sounds good.

Ryan: It depends on the job, right? And it depends on the leap that you're making within the company, but generally speaking.

Hannah: You know, but for people who are normal people like us walking into your job and asking for a $20,000 raise, you're going to get laughed out of the office. They were like no, that's not a thing. Sorry, Ryan. We're not going to do that. Sorry, Hannah. We're not going to do that.

So for people who are looking to increase their salary, they have to come to grips with the fact that for most people, you're going to have to move jobs in order to make more money. So you can't get too comfortable if your goal is to increase your income because you have to be willing to go to the next person, who's going to offer you more money.

And not only that, but right now, companies, with the age of technology we're in. Companies' demand the market just changes so fast. It's just so fast. It can, things can happen overnight. As we now know, again, nothing has ever been as clear as COVID where everything overnight has completely changed. And so people need to realize that they have to be looking out for their own interests in this way.

And so if their goal is to make money or if their goal is to—is to find a job that they like. They can't depend on an employer to look out for those interests. They have to.

Ryan: So I did want to touch on that second point that you brought up, which is like, with changing technology, companies are changing as well, and your job may be different. May not be there, may change, whatever. Have you downsized your department? So that is definitely real. Happens all the time. As you said, COVID is a perfect example of that. Literal whole companies wiped out. Whole departments of massive companies laid off. Get out of here. We don't need you anymore.

Okay. Your job is now at home, whatever, little hard to predict. And that's why we say you gotta be ready. Okay. What's a little easier to predict, and this is a little bit more nuanced. Is that like, is analyzing the size of your company. Analyzing what it is that your company does. Analyzing how old the company has been open, how big the company is, things like that.

So generally speaking, just generally speaking, the smaller the company, the less work stability you're going to have. And that's just because if it's a small business, very small, 1, 2, 3 less than 10 people, whatever it is, you know, it's really, it's like the owner or a manager and they just have to pay the bills, and they're going to do whatever they have to do to pay the bills. And I'm not talking about firing people or anything like that. I'm talking about like creating new revenue streams, right? So whatever that might be So changing, changing from a profitable industry or tender from our last profitable industry to a more profitable industry and something like that.

Hannah: Keep the doors open.

Ryan: Right? Exactly. So if you work in a chiropractic office or something like that, and you're like, okay, well, this chiropractor sees people. Every day and like he's a services business, right. But he's like, oh, you know what? I want to make a little bit more money.

I realized now that I can only make money when I'm working. I love chiropractics, but I'd like to make a little bit more money as well. He starts doing courses. So he starts doing courses of how to overall stay healthy. Keep your back healthier. How to stay out of my office, how to stay out of the orthopedist's office, how to say out of the podiatrist office.

And he starts making a lot of money there, right. And you're the receptionist, and now he's hired videographers. He's hard course consultants. He's hired at digital marketer.

Hannah: He sees one client a week, right? He doesn't need a receptionist anymore.

Ryan: He doesn't need a receptionist anymore.

Hannah: He needs a social media manager, right?

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: Which is where you have two choices, pretty much. If you see yourself, if you see these type of things lining up, which is you adapt.

Ryan: So anyway, that's just a little aside, and that just comes from, that comes from, from us because we are small business owners because, you know, if we had a dollar for every time that if we had a dollar for every time that our companies move directions, because and then also the smaller you are, the easier it is for the owners, for the managers to change directions.

Right? Like you're not going to move. Salesforce is a massive company.

Hannah: Yeah. So funny. A lot of people are like, what a lot of people don't know what it is, which I didn't before. Why would you, it's super, it's like super not interesting unless you, unless you know what it is. And even then it's still not that interesting.

Right? But a lot of people are like, you know what? This is like a, is this an MLM? I'm like, no, it's a billion dollar software company. Like that's what it is, you know.

Ryan: They're not going to pivot. They're not going to pull the pivot and just get rid of their CRM business.

Hannah: No, because that's the whole thing.

Ryan: Right. They're not going to like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to stop this CRM thing. That's cute. And then go into, and then go into consultancy. They're not going to do that. And so, you have to be worried about tech. You have to be worried about the changing landscape of those industries, but like in a small business, It's very, that is very typical.

You see somebody go, okay, I'm going to sell products. You know what products aren't working, I'm going to do services. And then all of a sudden the inventory manager, boom you're out of here.

Hannah: That escaled a lot too in, during COVID especially here. A place I noticed that happened a lot was the restaurants because they had to, right?

So a lot of people, they had certain, you know, the head servers. They had wait staff, but they laid the wait staff off because they were only doing to go orders. So they only have worked for like two of them, you know, if it's a family owned restaurant, then they just cut everybody. And it's only the family in the kitchen prepping takeout orders because small businesses in order to survive they have to cut costs, especially if they're not making enough to cover the cost.

And so a lot of people realize, like they think it's they almost get like personally hurt by it, but yeah. It's just money. Like if the door's closed, they can't pay for anything, right. And that's why the only person who's ever going to be as interested in your financial wellbeing and your job is you.

And that's why you have to be the one who looks out for you know, who looks out for your skillset and yeah your job potential your income. Like that's on you. You need to look out for that because you're the only one who cares that much about it.

Ryan: And that all goes perfectly into our last point, which is being ready at all times.

Yeah.

Hannah: You have to be ready to leave all the time. This again I think this is hard for a lot of people because they think that a company needs to be looking out for them. And the thing is you can look at the world that way and you can choose to not, you can choose to not get prepared.

You can choose to be caught off guard. You can choose to just rest and think that you're never going to get laid off that you're never going to get fired. That they're never going to cut your pay. They're never going to cut your hours. You can choose to live your life like that. What that does though, is that puts you at the mercy of every decision above you, instead of you deciding that you are going to be in control of what happens.

And so you can live your life in such a way that you, you think it's everyone else's responsibility to worry about how much money you're making. But though it may be more stressful to beginning because you do have to do some pre-work like we've talked about. If you are ready to go. When someone says you have to go you're, you're not going to get smacked in the face.

It's not gonna, it's not going to rock you as much as it will as if, as, as if you don't see that coming. And it just comes out of the blue and you're shocked, you know. Financially too, financially, mentally, you'll be more ready if you're ready when, when you hear that.

Ryan: So being ready at all times, it really helps to have a plan before any of this happens.

Right. But we kind of like to do. We think about the worst case scenarios, right? What if this happens, then what? If this happens, if this, then that, right? And it really helps too. Write it down. It helps to write it down. Okay. So what if I, what if the company goes under? What if my position gets eliminated?

What if I hate my job?

Hannah: What if I don't perform at work?

Ryan: Okay. And then, so you write down the plan of attack, write down what your next steps are .For each one of those scenarios. I would imagine that for each of the scenarios that you can think of widely, it's going to be pretty similar—its going to be pretty similar of what you're doing if not exactly the same, but at least name your fears. Name your fears, okay. Then what? Okay, this is how I'm going to be ready. How are you going to be ready? You're going to prepare your resume. You're going to have a generic cover letter written, your template written.

Hannah: You're going to learn X scale.

Ryan: Exactly.

Hannah: You're gonna make a portfolio at work.

Ryan: While you're still employed, you're like, okay, my next job leap. If I have to take a job leap, if I want to take it, you might like your job, right? But you might be like, okay, but if just in case this happens, you know what I'm going to go and I'm going to learn whatever—I'm going to learn, if you're in marketing or something, I'm going to learn the Adobe suite of tools or, you know what I mean?

I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna learn whatever Salesforce, CRM. I'm going to learn drip, whatever, email marketing.

Hannah: Something.

Ryan: Anything, and then retool while you're doing it. Or, I mean, that's the easiest way to do it. It's probably the retool while you're doing it.

Hannah: Because the pressure is not on you.

Ryan: Yeah, because the pressure's not on you and you don't have to like figure it out afterwards.

But as long as it's laid out in the plan and you're okay with that. And then like, and then also one of the things too, is that like, It'd be silly to not take into consideration some of your finances as well. Right? So you gotta be like, and this goes into personal finance and that goes into, you know, hopefully, hopefully this is a topic that we're definitely gonna get into later on, but, you know, having an emergency fund.

Hannah: At he risk of sounding like Dave Ramsey.

Ryan: It's super boring. It's super, it's super boring.

Hannah: But if you lose your job, and you have four months of bill and you have let's even be it let's, you know what, not even four months you have four weeks, that's enough time for you to figure out or learn wherever you to learn, to get into something else.

Ryan: Yeah. I think four weeks is a little bit less, but that's not the, that's not the point that we talked about, but yeah.

Anyway, if you have an emergency fund, It just opens up a lot of doors to you. It helps you feel like you don't like, you're not backed into a corner. Like you're not fighting with your hands tied behind her back.

Hannah: Cause you always make worse— your decisions are worse when they're based in fear.

Ryan: Yeah.

And that's why it really helps to name, to name these fears. And if you, if you have all of that ready, I mean, if you, if you know where your next job is going to be, at least the industry or the money or the company, or the group of companies, whatever, like, this is what I'm gonna do. This is where I'm going to apply. This is the cert that I'm going to get, or this is the skill that I'm going to learn. This is how much I make currently. These are my monthly expenses. All right. These are my fixed costs. These are my variable costs.

Hannah: This is myy new salary goal.

Ryan: Right? This is how much I have in savings. Okay. Worst comes to worst I have four months of savings if I need it. If I need to buy the second month, I look at it again, like shoot now I'm going back to top ramen every day, you know, just to drag it out. Cause you know, at least, you know now. At least you've named your fears and they're out there.

Hannah: This is applicable to anyone. This is applicable to any job. I don't care where you work. I don't care if you're 18 and you just started working at Walmart two months ago. You can still do this. Having this strategic thought literally helps everybody because you know where you stand, you know, where you can go and you know, when you have to get there and that's useful to everybody, I don't care where you're working.

Ryan: Like we said earlier, a lot of people come to the conclusion or the knee-jerk reaction that they need to go back to school. And going back to school is "it's the easy thing to do". It doesn't take creativity. People are literally going to pay for you to do it. What we see, what we see happen a lot of times is that like, I don't have any money, so I don't have an emergency fund.

I don't have any income. I need to make money. Can't get a job. I must not be getting a job because I don't have the right education. I don't have the right letters after my name. I don't have that piece of paper. So they go back to school. Because somebody else will pay for it because you can get a loan.

And this goes back to all the way back to like 17 years old, nobody is going to underwrite a loan for you when you have no assets, no collateral, no income. Nobody's going to underwrite that loan for you.

Hannah: No other industry is allowed to operate in this area because ethically speaking, it is not a good one.

Society has established that ethically. We don't do that unless it's for education, and only education from a college.

Ryan: So you're going to be able to go back to school, but you're going to, by borrowing that money, you're going to be grabbing the energy from the future. You're grabbing your future work and you're pulling it to today.

And instead of doing that, instead of having that knee jerk reaction, maybe, maybe try some other things first, maybe have your finances go the other way.

Hannah: Anything else that pays you peas.

Ryan: You know, we talk a lot about it and it's just, it's we say it's just the money, but it's also the time too, right?

Like you can go from–

Hannah: You're gonna lose years again.

Ryan: Exactly.

Again, a second time or first time, if that's your knee jerk reaction after you, after you have a career.

Hannah: That's true.

Ryan: Oh man, I should go back to school. I should go back to school. Are you the, like, you didn't finish that's why? You know what I mean? Like you didn't like, you didn't finish school. Like, oh, I should go back to school or I should go to college.

Hannah: People should know that the success rate for college is it's almost like a, it's almost like the law of diminishing returns. If you dropped out the chances of that working out for you get really bad. They get very bad if you're a dropout the prospects that you have for trying to do that again are real bad. The prospects for you coming out on the end of that financially ahead are very low. It's something like 58% of like a 58% failure rate. And by that, I mean, if you go back, if you drop out and if you go back that is not going to financially end up benefiting you. It will not. It's because you're digging yourself deeper into a pit. You're just digging yourself into a pit. And it's, it sounds really it sounds really harsh, but it's true. Those are not good odds. If those, if that was a bet, if you were betting money on, on odds like that, you wouldn't bet it.

And you definitely wouldn't take out a loan to roll those dice. You would not. It is insane to do that. But because it's packaged as education. We're willing to do it, and we need to separate the branding of education and that colleges have done and assess them from a financial perspective, which is the odds on this aren't good. I probably shouldn't spend that money because the odds on this aren't good. Instead of that emotional knee-jerk reaction that Ryan was talking about, which is I'm unsure and I'm scared. So, go back to the familiar thing. Don't do that stop and think about it really, really hard before you do that.

Ryan: Yup. And so, I think that that's a great place for us to wrap it up for today. Yeah, I think that this is just something that—because there's a lot of fear and anxiety in a lot of people when they, when they start to think about losing their jobs or once they do lose their job and they just don't know where to go, they don't know what to do.

And if you're just ready to job leap. If you're ready to leave your job, if you're ready to go to a different company, if you're ready to go to a different industry, if you know how to retool your life, if you know what your finances look like, you can make good decisions, right? And if you plan ahead, it's even easier because it's not emotional.

You're not in it. You're not in it, trying to make these decisions. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's pretty much it.

Hannah: Yeah. I think, I think that's all we have for today. Thank you everybody for watching. If you want more information on how to accomplish these things on how to work without going to college or getting a degree or going back to college and getting a degree, please do check out our website.

It's got all of our episodes on it. It also has our guide, which will tell you step-by-step how to interview. It has a cover letter, has a resume and it's all in a PDF form. So you can download it from the website. Please check it out. degreefreenetwork.com and also like and subscribe and review if you haven't already.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. All right guys, until next time. Aloha!

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