Today, we're going to talk about why creating a side hustle can benefit you in your career, even if you don't want to be an entrepreneur!
In this episode, we talk about:
- How starting a side hustle can benefit your career even if you don't want to be an entrepreneur.
- Why you shouldn't quit your job just to work on your side hustle.
- Why there's a high chance that your side hustle will fail, but the experience and knowledge you'll gain will be worth it!
Ryan and Hannah also share their experiences and learnings from their previous side hustles!
Enjoy the episode!
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Ryan: Hello folks. And welcome back to Degree Free. We are your hosts, Ryan, and Hannah Maruyama on this podcast we share fundamentals we've discovered and the mistakes we've made while self-educating getting work, building businesses and making money. We'll tell you how to make it happen. No degree needed.
Hannah: Hey everybody.
Welcome back to the podcast. We're super excited to have you as always. And if you want to get more degree free, cause who wouldn't, we actually write a weekly newsletter and you are definitely want to sign up for it. So you're going to want to go over to degreefree.co/signup and sign up for our newsletter.
It's got news, career ideas, resources jobs of the week. You definitely want to see those. So go on over and sign, up.
Ryan: Yep, absolutely. And let's get into today's episode. Today we are going to be talking about the four reasons you need to start a side hustle and this sounds super Gary V ish.
Hannah: I was about to say that.
Ryan: Right? So before you turn us off,
Hannah: because we sound like Gary V and we're going to tell you to go to a yard sale.
Ryan: Right? Exactly.
This is something that Hannah and I have a lot of experience in starting side hustles or doing side hustles. I mean, At one point, this was a side hustle. In many ways, it still is a side hustle.
Hannah: Okay. So even if you don't want to be a entrepreneur or solopreneur, as they're called now, you really do want to consider starting a side hustle or some sort of business, because it can really help you when you are applying to jobs, interestingly enough, but it's actually going to boost your career because it's going to teach you how to do things and provide you witha lot of practical experience that other people just don't have.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. We're going to go over the four reasons. I'll just give them to you at the top. Just cause they're pretty easy. The first reason in the order of importance, I feel like it's going to be learning, networking, building confidence, and the last obviously is earning money.
And when we're talking about side hustles, we're not really talking about, doing Uber or door dash or task rabbit. We're talking about starting businesses and we're not knocking door dash or Uber or anything like that.
Hannah: Not even at all.
Ryan: Right. Those are great ways to make cash, great ways to have a job .
Hannah: Their businesses, their jobs.
Ryan: Right, exactly. The thing is, what we're talking about is just creating a business from creating a product or service, and then trying to sell that to somebody.
Hannah: Yeah. Cause that's, that's a whole, that's more, it's more all encompassing. So you're going to be responsible for everything. Whereas when you're starting with Uber, you know, Uber does marketing for you.
Uber does processing for you. Uber works on product for you. Uber does all of these things and you provide labor, which has great. But it doesn't, you don't have the same amount of ownership and you don't have the same amount of, I don't know, hands-on experience building your own thing when you're working for Uber or with Uber as a partner.
Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And just to kind of quickly go over, like we talked about our background in side hustles, and side hustles have been something that we've been doing forever. I mean, for me personally, the first time that I had a quote unquote side hustle was Blake in seventh grade, when I would buy pizza from delivery from like pizza hut. I'd call them up to come to my school. And, I would pay, I think back then a pizza was like $10 or something like that for a one topping large or something. And I would put that money up front and then I would sell pizzas for like a dollar, a slice or something, something like that, whatever it was. And I basically ate lunch for free ate pizza for free. And I made some money. I was like, dude, this is awesome. I would buy it. I would go to like the drug store and I'd buy a bag of candy and then I would sell it for like 25 cents.
Hannah: And then you got in trouble,
Ryan: Right? Yeah, exactly. My dad wasn't super thrilled. You know, I
Hannah: llegal selling
Ryan: I know exactly.
He saw the distribution, he saw the path towards elicit things I'm sure.
Hannah: That was the reason for the crackdown, for sure.
Ryan: The whole middleman aspect. Definitely. But even since, Hannah and I we've been together, we've been trying everything. I mean, we've tried drop shipping.
We tried selling Etsy prints. I sold used books for a really long time.
Hannah: He's actually really good at it too, folks. Miss on his calling as a used book salesman, for sure.
Ryan: We published books, we did. And then our biggest. Side hustle, quote unquote side hustle ended up being enough of a business where if we wanted to, could have quit our jobs.
Hannah: Yup. That was pretty crazy because at a certain point, if you continue to build something while you're still working, you just lower a lot of risk for yourself because if you're working and you know your baseline income is secured. You can take more measured financial risks to invest in your side hustle as it were.
But, we were able to grow a brick and mortar cosmetic tattoo shop into something that was making. It was making great money and we had steady client flow still to this day. We still get inquiries, from all the value we put out there to build a shop.
And it's pretty crazy. Pretty crazy.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. And one of the things that I did want to say about the side hustles and, we kind of talk about it a lot is, this is definitely meant to be something you build while you're still working, right? Like, we're not gonna quit our jobs with an idea of, going and executing a business later on.
We're going to do this while we're still employed.
Hannah: Which is why it's a side hustle, because a lot of, a lot of people think that to start a business, you need to quit your job. And I think that for people that are not financially secure enough to do so, that actually makes it much harder to succeed. And I think we've talked about this before and even use Damon John from Shark Tank, where he was working at Red Lobster, even when his company was making like.
They were like making 50 grand a month or something like that and he was still working at red lobster full-time because he just was trying to hold down the baseline of his income so he could continue to build. Right. And his back was , not against a wall. And he was able to build rationally because he wasn't making emotional decisions based on money.
And, as much as we talk about trying to separate money from feelings. It's really a good idea to try to give yourself as much room as possible to be hyper rational about your monetary decisions. And it's really hard to do that with a business that you're growing that you're really emotionally, mentally, and financially invested in.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely.
And I think just to kind of get into it, the first thing, like we said in the order of importance is going to be learn if you're starting a business. You are going to learn everything about business. There's going to be skill and all right, you don't have the same concerns being a one-person shop or a solopreneur or an entrepreneur, like a small business as maybe these companies that have 500 employees or even a dozen employees.
Starting something where you're creating a product or creating a service, and then you are going out and marketing, not selling it, getting the deal and then providing the product or service that is going to teach you so much about everything, about business. And so even if you don't want to be a business owner in the longterm, learning all these things is going to make you a more attractive job candidate. You're going to be applying to work at a business regardless of. Where you apply? I don't care if you're applying at a for-profit company. I don't care if you're applying at a nonprofit company,
Hannah: It's still businesses.
Ryan: Yeah. I don't recall if you're applying to a college, if you're applying to a farm, it doesn't matter. You, if they have work, that's a business. If they're going to pay you to do it, that's a business. So, understanding the inner workings, at least at a basic line, is going to help you in any portion and it doesn't necessarily have to be always on the income side or the sell side of the business, right?
If you learn how accounting works, if you learn how operations work, if you learn how order fulfillment works, those are all valuable skills as well.
Hannah: Yeah. Because if you think about all the stuff that goes into running a business, right? You sort of just touched on it, but understanding really simplistic things.
Like how does the business make money? What does the business sell? How much are they selling it? How are they selling it? Who are they selling it to? Who are they hiring to sell it all kinds of there's just so much here. Like how do they run the day to day, as you said, but these are really simple things that you can see when you look at any business.
It doesn't matter how big it is. It doesn't matter how small it is. These things are present in all of them. And if you understand those foundational principles, because you've been doing it yourself and you have a decent grasp on it. That's hugely valuable to somebody who needs somebody to do work.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely.
The list goes on and on there's website development, there's copywriting, communication and building a brand, all of these things, negotiations, delegation, management, these are things that if you can understand them.
Hannah: Super attractive as an employee.
Hannah: Super attractive.
Ryan: The challenge is also, in your interview and on your resume, you're going to have to communicate that to these people,
Hannah: which can be complicated if it's unrelated.
And actually even if it is related to, but still being able to explain, this is what I understand about running a business. This is what I understand about you, about your business and just being able to effectively communicate that to a hiring manager, somebody whose team you want to work on or the owner of a business.
Ryan: But yeah, that's pretty much for learning, right? So many things to know about business and you can always learn more but especially if you don't feel like you have enough experience on your resume, if you feel like you don't have a grasp, or if you're asking yourself, how can I gain experience, but nobody wants to give me a shot.
Right? Like nobody is willing to hire me. We hear this all the time. Nobody's willing to hire me because I don't have the experience. All right. One of the ways to get valuable experience in business is to start one. And I want to be clear. We're not saying that you should go out and spend a million dollars on a business.
The reason why the last point is earning money is because most businesses fail.
Ryan: Right. We're going to go into it with just the attitude that we're going to learn, how business works. And I know for a lot of you out there, this is super relevant because we hear it every day. How do I gain experience when nobody can give me a shot?
Right? You. Take it upon yourself,
Hannah: make your own experience.
Ryan: Exactly. You take it upon yourself, put it on your shoulders and you go out there and get it,
Hannah: learn your own things.
Ryan: Right. Exactly. And that kind of leads us into another thing, which is. networking, that's going to be a second thing.
Hannah: And this is a huge one because one of the most effective ways to network is to be a business owner because you have a reason to talk to other people, right?
Just at the baseline level, because a lot of people will say, how do I network? But if you have something that you're selling and you're talking to somebody else who has something that they're selling, you have a reason that exists already to speak to those people and you even have the shared commonality of being a business owner, even if your business is really small or completely different than someone else's business, especially if there's any sort of overlap remotely, you have a completely valid reason to be speaking to them, to ask them questions, to, and to learn from them and to, just lean on their experience and wisdom to sure.
Ryan: You hear a lot about going to networking events or joining clubs. And while that is great, and that is definitely a way to do it. If you start a business, it gives you, as you said, it gives you a reason to reach out a legitimate one, and I'm not knocking clubs or networking events or anything like that, but, we've only been to a few.
But the ones that we have been to the, they were never as fruitful as we thought they were going to be.
Hannah: No, we learned about networking events that if you go to a networking event, it's because you need something. And so usually it's a bunch of young people who need something who are at networking events.
Ryan: It was one of those things. And this might be different if you're going to an event about something. Right? So say that
Hannah: fundraise like a charity fundraiser or something that sounds completely different to me,
Ryan: Sure, the things that we went to, and this was a handful of times we went to strictly oh, we're having a networking event for entrepreneurs, for marketers, for business owners in the local area.
You name it.
I remember one time we went to this networking meeting, I'll call it
Hannah: that meeting it wasn't an Amway presentation folks, but it was a meeting. Yeah. So basically we went to this, we went to this networking event and it was a networking event for, it was just not networking event for entrepreneurs meet up whatever, but really it was more of a meeting and it was a pitch for digital marketing services and as the longer we sat there, the more that we realized that we were the only people there with the brick and mortar business and that everyone else at the meeting were all selling their digital marketing services. So we felt like sheep in a meeting of wolfs because we were the only ones that would, be the target audience for that, because we were the ones that would have paid for digital marketing for our business, because we didn't have digital. We weren't really digital marketing at the time. And all of these people were professional digital marketers. So they needed someone like us to sell their services to.
But you'll find if you do start a side hustle, if you do start down this road and you start to build something, you'll also find that you do need to seek out community. but what we found was that oftentimes the people who are the most helpful, who are the most. Invested in you are your own clients.
Ryan: I kind of talking out of both sides of our mouth here while we've had a bad taste in our mouth from networking meetings or networking events, specifically, what is good about being a business owner is it does give you an opportunity to. Offer something to people. So let's take that exact same scenario, that meeting that we went to, those digital marketers, it was a perfect place for them, even though they only had only had one person to pitch, they could have pitched us.
Right. And boy were, we pitched like, so in that way it was good. Or for another example, let's just say that, you go to your local business commerce meetup, and you're a hairdresser and you go there and you can you introduce yourself as a hairdresser, you run your own salon or your own business, and you can try to pick up clients that way.
Hannah: So maybe a better lesson here would be to go to networking events where you can actually bring value to the people there instead of going to get value. Maybe that's a better, maybe that's what we should have learned from that was go. If you have something to offer, offer the people there, if you can genuinely help them with whatever your business is.
Ryan: Sure. And I think that also moves nicely into our next thing with networking and this worked really well for us was, depending on your business, if you're a service or a product, like we ran a services business, and some of the best networking that we've done have come from our very own client,
Hannah: because it gives you the opportunity to meet people you wouldn't otherwise meet.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. And what we did was very different. So everybody's going to be different, but we'll just talk about it on our own experience, our services business that we ran, it needed to have people in front of us for about 24 hours before they were done with their service. Right. And as a total of about four, four times, maybe a little bit less than 24 hours, maybe 20 hours, but five sessions of four sessions of five hours, rather, sorry. Excuse me. Four sessions of five hours. Each of which we just talked to them. Right. And so we, we realized quickly that when we were doing, and when we started this people really connected with us.
Hannah: really connected with them when we learned a lot.
And all we did was just, we were talking while we were working and by the end of it, the, we were friends.
Hannah: Yeah. It was really cool.
Ryan: Yeah. And we had some of the most successful people that I never, I never would have got into the same room with these people, but they came and got our service done with us
Hannah: and so now for an, for an unrelated reason, we're able to speak to these people who have so much knowledge and so much wisdom and just know so much that we don't know.
Ryan: Exactly. And, we had some of our, I'm thinking of two people, for sure, but as a bunch of people. But two people that were way out of our league, as far as like connections and things like that, we would've never met them.
We would have never been in the same room with them.
Ryan: We had something to offer them. They were paying us. And then on top of it, we were able to build a connection. So one of these people that I'm thinking about, he was a media person and we got some of the best media coverage. That we've ever gotten from this person.
Hannah: Yep. And they were super supportive of our, of our business and of us individually as well almost becoming sort of a mentor figure. That was really huge for us.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. And another person that I'm thinking about was a lawyer, a very high powered lawyer, and this was this was specifically my client, although you interacted with him a little bit, but I interacted with him a lot. And, there's this fireman that, that also runs a services business that, makes a good living, and then there's this guy that runs a very successful law firm. He's very stressed out and he was in personal injury.
So it was a very stressful field, but at least we talk numbers. If he's not blowing smoke up my butt, it was a seven figure business, at least in revenue. And I think it was, I think it was closer to eight, but we were able to sit down and talk. And by the end of it, we were friends.
We exchanged numbers and, whereas the first person, we got media coverage with the second person, I ended up having a legal question later and I was like, I have no idea what I'm I have no idea. And then I was just like, oh, all I remember, I am friends, I'm friends with so-and-so. And so I literally shot this lawyer a text saying, Hey, I need some help. Can you point me in the right direction? And he's like, yeah, sure. Let's let's schedule a call, and then he scheduled it. He scheduled,
Hannah: he gave of his time.
Ryan: Yeah. He scheduled a call and we were on the phone for, I don't know, 30 minutes an hour, but it didn't matter to him cause we were catching up as friends. Right. We caught up his friends and then I, it feels, I may not want any of you to help with, and he's just you know what, let me think about this. I'm not sure right now, let me look into it. And then he texted me the next day. With some names and he's here's what to do.
Hannah: And this is where it was really humbling to, for both of us during this experience. Cause we were like, whoa, this is unbelievable like that because we would have never won. We would never come across these people. And then to the idea that they would be invested enough in us, to help in that way was just really cool.
It was really cool, really humbling and really. Illustrates the power of being able to provide value in a service to other people, the people oftentimes who are going to be the most invested in you are the people who've bought from you.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. So I wanted to talk one more thing about what we learned about that situation real quick with that we are competitors in that space.
They decided a couple of them. Because we're in the same room for, five hours at a time, four to five hours at a time. Some of them have like TVs and some of them have like other things they let the client control the music, things like that. Or they, people put headphones in. We engineered our space, our room to get rid of all of that.
Right. We had one dinky, little $20 radio, and we left it on the same station and we listened to the same music that they were playing, whatever ads they were playing. And we didn't have any TVs, nothing, no screens. And we just sat there and we talked to them and we found, we found not only did that increase our networking, but it also increased their, satisfaction because with our service,
Hannah: because we are providing more of a service by being present to, and actually being, paying attention and being attentive to them as well.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And we know we went on a big tangent about running services business, just because of.
Very much what we've done in the past.
Hannah: And if you guys have listened to the podcast before you know that we're big proponents of, that's a great place to start. If you don't know what to do, because people need things done, right? People just need things done. Like they need their houses cleaned.
They need their hair done. They need their nails done. They need, they just need stuff. People need things done.
Ryan: But that's not to say that even if you're running a product or an information business that you can't also reach out. Right. It just gives you a mask to put on, to reach out to people.
I mean, obviously don't just take right. The key, the key is to give that's we can get into that in another episode and it's kind of a whole episode on its own.
Ryan: But just know that. Starting your own side hustle, starting a small business, one of the best ways out there to network that we found.
Hannah: Yeah, I would agree. And then something that kind of this plays into it as well, but one thing that happens when you're teaching yourself things And you're starting to network as you're building a business is you are going to get more confident as a side effect of doing those things, because you are going to be uncomfortable in learning.
You're going to be uncomfortable in, intending to your business and networking. And you're going to start saying, oh, you're going to have to get more comfortable asking for help. You're going to have to get more comfortable asking for things in general, reaching out to people, and I think that as a side effect of that, you are going to get more confident.
Because, I will say building businesses has made me more uncomfortable than anything that we have ever done ever. And I think about the stuff that, because I, because we had a business and it needed to be tended to, and we needed to care for it. I personally know that I had to do stuff that like, I had to walk into places I've never been and say, Hey, will you buy this thing for me?
Hey, how are you? What's your name? Here's some, here's some donuts. I need you to X. If you can, like how can I help you? What can we do? How can we do these things? And this is in multiple different ways and people are going to tell you no, but eventually one person's going to tell you. Yes. And after that happens, you're going to get slowly more confident because you're just going to get used to being more and more uncomfortable as time goes on.
Ryan: Sure. And I guess I want to make it clear too, with this one landing clients and customers. Is obviously a huge win, right? I mean, nothing better than making sales, nothing better than closing deals.
Hannah: it's a triumph.
Ryan: It's awesome. Right. Making money is great. Especially if it's something that you've built or that you're doing personally, but I guess when we're talking about building confidence, we also want to make sure that we're not just putting it towards making a sale.
Right. We don't want all of our eggs to be in that one basket because for a lot of people, they don't end up making sales for a long time. And then. it can take a while for your business to make any money. So finding those little wins everywhere is a really important thing for me, I know being an entrepreneur or at least, doing all these things was huge, like for an exam, for an example, before we ever sold a product or sold a service that we've actually developed or even marketed.
I had to learn how to use, how to build websites. I never built a website before. And our first thing that we did was drop shipping. And that was a massive failure, but I mean, fail failure and not, we didn't make any money off it, but I learned a lot.
Hannah: Right. We lost a lot of money on it.
Ryan: Right, exactly. So that's why, and that's why our fourth point is earned, right?
Point is earn. And our first point is learn, right. Because I learned a lot from that experience, but I remember, I was trying to make a button do something that I wanted it to do. I forget if it was on a website. And I forget if it was, I'm trying to make it pink or China, whatever it was.
Right. Or if I was trying to make it, do something on hover or something like that. So, I wrestled with this thing for hours and I would say even days, cause I had no idea what I was doing, and I finally did it one day and it was huge, right. I mean, that was a huge win for me. And it's just having those little different silos of your life in order to.
Right. You can be having a real bad day at work. You can have a real bad day with
Hannah: at home
Ryan: Yeah, exactly. With your family or maybe you had a bad workout or something like that. You got into a fender bender, but you have another part here where you can build confidence in
Hannah: You got something to work.
Ryan: Yeah, exactly.
Hannah: And that you mastered even a micro skill and that taking that, taking that win for the day is huge.
Ryan: Yeah. Just remember to celebrate the small things, right. I mean, take time to really celebrate those things as they come and,
Hannah: that's good advice.
Ryan: Yeah. Right. I think so.
Hannah: I know we didn't have to do enough at the beginning.
Ryan: I have to remember that for myself all the time. But the last thing that we want to talk about, guys, the fourth reason why you should start a side hustle. I mean, there's so many reasons, but
Hannah: and notice that this one's
at the very end,
Ryan: As we, as we've been saying is it's to make money. Right. Yep. As we said, most new businesses fail. I think I forget what it is. Like most new businesses don't make it past the two year mark or something like that.
Hannah: Yeah. What's funny about it though, is , you need almost an insane amount of optimism to start a business at all, but it's probably not going to work out, but you have to hope for it the whole time.
Ryan: Yeah, definitely.
And, well, it depends on how you go into it. Right. And that's why, and that's why we're talking about this episode. Like what do we mean by not working out. Between you and I, we have what, maybe seven, eight businesses at quote-unquote didn't work out.
Hannah: Right. But how much should we learn?
Ryan: Right, exactly. How much should we learn? How much should we network and how confident are we now? Yeah. Right. Okay. Along the way, we were very fortunate to also make a little bit of money, but it was, for years,
Yeah, it took years.
It wasn't for years until we made money.
Ryan: Right. I mean,
Hannah: Yes. It was a long time, right? The long haul.
Ryan: Exactly. And so, but along the way, we were learning, we were networking and, and we were building confidence. So now when we do different things, we are confident enough to know it because we learned it already. Right. We know who to call or at least sometimes we know who to call.
Hannah: This is a huge one too, and normally this is Ryan's line. Actually, he we're big on this. If you've listened to our podcast, you know that this is how we feel about this, but it's really key at the beginning of a business. Especially if you just start it, especially if you don't know what you're doing yet not to overextend yourself financially, it's very important that you be cautious with your money when you are stepping forward into a space that you have never been, and you're not sure what to do. So it's, it's a good idea. So if you're buying things for your business, make sure you can afford whatever those things are, because you don't want to be overextending yourself.
You don't want to be in debt now because you're trying to start a business. Because again, what we talked about at the beginning of this episode is making rational decisions about money. And it's difficult to make rational decisions about money. If your back is against the wall and you're going into debt.
And so it's hard to nurture something and make it grow. It's hard to just function in your normal life. And it's hard to make really common sense decisions when you feel that way. So be really careful as you're starting a business, not to put yourself in debt, not to overextend yourself financially when you're starting it.
Ryan: Yeah. At the beginning revenue isn't guaranteed, but expenses are right. So every, and this is just kind of life, especially when you're starting out and you haven't mastered a budget, you haven't mastered how to stay on it. Every dollar saved is a dollar earned. And that's not to say that eventually you can't delegate or eventually you can't outsource or, the fact of the matter is that we're all human.
We all have our strengths and we all have our weaknesses. Eventually when you get to a certain point in your business, you're gonna need somebody else.
You're gonna need help.
Ryan: You're gonna you're going to need help at the beginning. It's probably not the right time to, be hiring all these people if you haven't made any money.
And we've been there before too,
Ryan: But that being said, if you can make it profitable from the start, that's the hope that's the goal
Hannah: and the goal doesn't even need to be that you make it, your only job either your goal could be to maintain a profitable business on the side of your job. If your job fills your healthcare needs, fills your basic, Fills your basic like Brent food, et cetera, mortgage, car payment, whatever.
And on the side, you want to build this thing because you want to put that money away for retirement or vacations, or to spend money on your dog or your kids or your family or whatever. Then that's great that there is absolutely, that is an absolutely wonderful use of a side hustle or side business.
For us, I know that when we were running our services business, we. We're making enough money for us to quit our jobs.
Hannah: Yeah. That was a shocking realization.
Ryan: And, but we didn't have to. We both liked our jobs, right.
Hannah: They fit around our work right, they fit around our business.
Ryan: We made it work for us.
We're like we had this conversation . I'm really nah
it's okay. I mean, obviously, the extra money definitely helped too. Because we were making it, as many ways as we could at the time,
Hannah: The way we thought about it, to the way we thought about that while that was happening was it's a little different if it's a services business, because you have to work in the services business too.
But if you can create something, if you can create a side hustle or side business, that's making money while you're working, it's basically like creating another person. That's working to bring money into your house. So that's how we thought about it, it's like a third job basically, but it's a third way that there's income coming into our house and we were okay with that.
And that's, uh, that's, that's a great way to use a side hustle.
Ryan: Yeah. And I think that's pretty much it for today. The side hustles, super overplayed, super talked about. I feel like Gary V but really, if you guys want to learn something new, if you guys want to meet new people and network in different ways, build your confidence in different areas.
We know that especially looking for jobs now getting turned down so much, it's difficult and it takes a toll on your confidence. This could be something to help boost it. And if you want it to make a little bit extra money, this could be a way, but obviously it's the last reason. But if you guys liked today's episode, please like and subscribe, give us an honest review wherever you get your podcasts.
Hannah: And if you want to get more news, more Degree Free news, more Degree Free jobs, more Degree Free resources, and just more of this. Then go ahead and sign up for the Degree Free newsletter. That's going to be on degreefree.co/signup and you can get our free newsletter that gets emailed out once a week.
Ryan: Yep, absolutely guys until next time. Aloha
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